Markakis on Astros: "Every Single Guy Needs a Beating"

[DrungoHazewood]

1 hour ago, atomic said:

Canseco weighed on the scandal today.  Said that knowing what pitches were coming was a bigger advantage than being on steroids.  

Canseco is one of those people for whom the truth is a vague concept.  He has no idea how much of an impact any of this had because no one does.  The individual circumstances are all over the place.  We have only the haziest ideas of the details necessary to put together objective evidence of how either PEDs or sign stealing impacted players' numbers.

The impact might have been anything from slightly negative to slightly positive to overwhelmingly positive, and anyone who tells you they know precisely which one for any individual player is making stuff up.

[eddie83]

1 minute ago, 24fps said:

I believed I use the term "broad authority" and he certainly does have that.  There is every reasonable expectation that a person whose job it is to look after your interests actually does so and in this case that applies to both Rob Manfred and Tony Clark.  The upshot of this affair is that the people most victimized remain victimized and most of the people who created the problem in the first place come through untouched in any meaningful way.  It's hard spin that and Manfred in particular has failed miserably in the attempt.

Once again this is a players on field issue and discipline. He cannot punish players because he wants to. 

His letter in September of 2017 placed the manager and GM in charge of sign stealing. He had no avenue to punish the players. If he tries to he stirs up a hornets nest with the union when there is already a ton of tension and a new CBA has to be negotiated.  

[eddie83]

How many of the players outraged over this were using their own replay rooms to get signs sent to them when someone was on second base?  

Obviously what Houston did was well over and beyond that but still.  

[atomic]

16 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

Canseco is one of those people for whom the truth is a vague concept.  He has no idea how much of an impact any of this had because no one does.  The individual circumstances are all over the place.  We have only the haziest ideas of the details necessary to put together objective evidence of how either PEDs or sign stealing impacted players' numbers.

The impact might have been anything from slightly negative to slightly positive to overwhelmingly positive, and anyone who tells you they know precisely which one for any individual player is making stuff up.

I think Canseco is very truthful.  People called him a liar in the past but everything he said was proven true.  Of course you can't quantify how much it would help.  Or which one would help more.  

[atomic]

13 minutes ago, eddie83 said:

How many of the players outraged over this were using their own replay rooms to get signs sent to them when someone was on second base?  

Obviously what Houston did was well over and beyond that but still.  

I am not sure what you are trying to prove with this comment?  If someone did some cheating they should be suspended as well and be punished.  But some comment with no basis in fact and different from what the Astros were doing isn't much of an argument.  I am not sure why you are using it.   

 

[Can_of_corn]

https://www.post-gazette.com/sports/joe-starkey/2020/02/20/Players-union-not-Rob-Manfred-is-shielding-arrogant-cheating-Astros-players-Joe-Starkey/stories/202002200086

[Moose Milligan]

1 hour ago, DrungoHazewood said:

 We have only the haziest ideas of the details necessary to put together objective evidence of how either PEDs or sign stealing impacted players' numbers.

The impact might have been anything from slightly negative to slightly positive to overwhelmingly positive, and anyone who tells you they know precisely which one for any individual player is making stuff up.

Huh.  You could say the same for Pete Rose.

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Huh.  You could say the same for Pete Rose.

Rose takes this to the next level.

[Chuck A]

15 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Rose takes this to the next level.

Charlie Hustle belongs in the HOF.  Period.

[makoman]

21 minutes ago, Chuck A said:

Charlie Hustle belongs in the HOF.  Period.

Probably. Even so, I think it's worked out ok for him. All his accomplishments are there in the Hall. And everybody talks about him all the time because of this. This issue seems to come up on Orioles Hangout, a site and team with no connection to him at all, weekly to monthly. How often does anybody talk about Tom Seaver, a guy with over 100 WAR, who Rose probably would have joined as a first ballot inductee in 1992?

I don't know the man, but from what I see of him I kind of think he likes his unique position, keeping his name in the news, rather than being just another one of 300 or so Hall of Famers. At least, he's probably good with it in a way someone else less focused on self-promotion wouldn't be. It sure hasn't seemed to hurt his autograph sales.

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, makoman said:

Probably. Even so, I think it's worked out ok for him. All his accomplishments are there in the Hall. And everybody talks about him all the time because of this. This issue seems to come up on Orioles Hangout, a site and team with no connection to him at all, weekly to monthly. How often does anybody talk about Tom Seaver, a guy with over 100 WAR, who Rose probably would have joined as a first ballot inductee in 1992?

I don't know the man, but from what I see of him I kind of think he likes his unique position, keeping his name in the news, rather than being just another one of 300 or so Hall of Famers. At least, he's probably good with it in a way someone else less focused on self-promotion wouldn't be. It sure hasn't seemed to hurt his autograph sales.

He could sell his autograph for more if he was in the Hall.

[SteveA]

4 hours ago, 24fps said:

The Commissioner still has broad authority to act in the best interest of the game.  His hands were tied by himself when he chose to render that authority impotent in pursuit of the "truth".  What contemptible rubbish.  Even knowing that he would lose the grievance process he had the obligation to at least pretend that he had a spine.  "Punishments" where no guilty players lose money, playing time or jewelry and no guilty team loses their trophy falls ludicrously short of adequate.

I strongly suspect (actually I strongly believe without the benefit of evidence) that Manfred and Tony Clark brokered this approach with the understanding that sign stealing and all its variants would be addressed in the new CBA and no doubt it will be - probably rigorously.  That's all well and good but the players who were victims of the Astros' cheating and their fans get left holding the bag - in this case chock full of fully justified resentment.

And I wonder if he got the whole truth.   Even if the players had immunity, it was still in their best interest from a PR point of view to admit to what they had to but no more.   I find it hard to believe cheating brought them a championship and then they just quit.   I wonder how thorough MLB's investigation was.   They say they  found no evidence of buzzers or of cheating in 2019.   But i wonder how hard they looked.   Both sides had a motivation to find as little as possible.  

[Moose Milligan]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

He could sell his autograph for more if he was in the Hall.

Or could he? Maybe he makes more on it since he's a pariah/martyr. 

[sportsfan8703]

So much for Markakis not being "fiery" enough.  

[Can_of_corn]

13 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Or could he? Maybe he makes more on it since he's a pariah/martyr. 

Already a ton of the ones without being in the hall out there.