The second guessing Hyde thread.

[Robert Drake]

Orioles pitchers walking dudes was like watching Ravens' receivers dropping passes. Just bad, bad, bad. 

[tntoriole]

1 hour ago, OsFanSinceThe80s said:

With the Padres it doesn't seem like they were selling or perhaps they were asking a crazy return like the White Sox demanding Holliday for Dylan Cease.

Exactly.. 

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

19 minutes ago, tntoriole said:

Exactly.. 

I think the trade market should be much more reasonable during the off-season, I got the impression teams were trying to fleece the Orioles of some top prospects hoping Elias was desperate to win now.

 

[Can_of_corn]

5 minutes ago, OsFanSinceThe80s said:

I think the trade market should be much more reasonable during the off-season, I got the impression teams were trying to fleece the Orioles of some top prospects hoping Elias was desperate to win now.

 

Fleece the Orioles?  Do you think any team would take a lesser offer from team B because the O's wouldn't make a stupid overpay?

I will admit that teams like the White Sox may not have had reasonable expectations.  That's an outlier.

[Aristotelian]

2 hours ago, tntoriole said:

I think the 2023 success did really catch Elias a bit off guard and i think the original plan for trading was and is this offseason 

And it takes two partners to trade and maybe the market was just too rich in his judgement.. don’t know what was offered or turned down, etc 

We do know that Jordan Hicks went to the Blue Jays for two non top 100 prospects. Kinda disappointing we didn't beat that but maybe they were exclusively interested in pitching. 

[dystopia]

11 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

We do know that Jordan Hicks went to the Blue Jays for two non top 100 prospects. Kinda disappointing we didn't beat that but maybe they were exclusively interested in pitching. 

Hicks wasn’t exactly lighting the world on fire. He did good for the BJs in a small sample size but wouldn’t look for him to repeat that. Hindsight 20/20

[tntoriole]

44 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

We do know that Jordan Hicks went to the Blue Jays for two non top 100 prospects. Kinda disappointing we didn't beat that but maybe they were exclusively interested in pitching. 

No doubt Elias could tell us exactly about any name available and what went down and I believe he just did not think the value matched the price.   Of course, that was all pre Bautista injury. 

[Can_of_corn]

8 minutes ago, tntoriole said:

No doubt Elias could tell us exactly about any name available and what went down and I believe he just did not think the value matched the price.   Of course, that was all pre Bautista injury. 

I agree.

But is he overvaluing prospects?

Is he hamstrung by ownership?

Even before Bautista the staff didn't look playoff ready to a lot of us.

[tntoriole]

10 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I agree.

But is he overvaluing prospects?

Is he hamstrung by ownership?

Even before Bautista the staff didn't look playoff ready to a lot of us.

I read where Sig Mejdal is verrry much of a prospect hoarding type. 
 

Could be .. depends.. i just think he was surprised a bit by this happening this year and he didn’t appropriately plan for a Bautista injury scenario. 
 

But I think he might say..there is a line I won’t cross as to value vs cost because it will hinder the future.  And he didn’t pull the trigger obviously.  We will never know cause we don’t know what the details were. 
 

Still .. if Santander pulls the ball past Jung in the eighth, then we win game 1 and the flaw is compensated for.. or if Grod got more than 5 outs, or if Means had not turned up sore then one of Kremer or Gibson come in with Baker not on the roster . ..Lots of variables, most of them not predictable. 

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, tntoriole said:

 

Could be .. depends.. i just think he was surprised a bit by this happening this year and he didn’t appropriately plan for a Bautista injury scenario. 
 

 

If he was still surprised by the time the deadline came and went that isn't a good sign.

The team was over 500 last year, the idea that the team might be buyers at the deadline should have been floated.

[drjohnnyfever1]

14 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

If he was still surprised by the time the deadline came and went that isn't a good sign.

The team was over 500 last year, the idea that the team might be buyers at the deadline should have been floated.

We don't know that it wasn't, but when you have clear rebuild philosophy and it hits maybe a year early, it doesn't mean, necessarily, that you up the timeline or do something that might hinder the overall plan.

If anything, doing better than expected and not giving up farm pieces for a run, to me, demonstrates discipline.  I hope that what they did by not being too aggressive was give some of those guys in the farm and another draft class time to get more ingrained and ready for next year and beyond. 

We are on our second bounce on diving board before the dive is how I look at it.  Things were too expensive to interrupt the dive, but we enter the pool next year.

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, drjohnnyfever1 said:

We don't know that it wasn't, but when you have clear rebuild philosophy and it hits maybe a year early, it doesn't mean, necessarily, that you up the timeline or do something that might hinder the overall plan.

If anything, doing better than expected and not giving up farm pieces for a run, to me, demonstrates discipline.  I hope that what they did by not being too aggressive was give some of those guys in the farm and another draft class time to get more ingrained and ready for next year and beyond. 

We are on our second bounce on diving board before the dive is how I look at it.  Things were too expensive to interrupt the dive, but we enter the pool next year.

Of course it does.

I don't recall which of the current crop of doom and gloom posters said it but they were right about one thing.  You get a chance you have to take it.  You can't just assume that the O's will be perennial playoff team.  This might be the best chance this window has for a title.

Now obviously I'm not suggesting that they should have done something stupid but when you have the top ranked farm in MLB and the second lowest payroll you can do better than Flaherty and Fuji.
 

[tntoriole]

1 hour ago, Can_of_corn said:

If he was still surprised by the time the deadline came and went that isn't a good sign.

The team was over 500 last year, the idea that the team might be buyers at the deadline should have been floated.

My belief is Elias knew all that and much more but obviously ended up valuing our prospects more than what was available at that point in time. 

Edited October 9, 2023 by tntoriole

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, tntoriole said:

My belief is Eluas knew all that and much more but obviously ended up valuing our prospects more than what was available at that point in time. 

Sure, and I'm questioning that evaluation.

They have a bottleneck of middle infielders.  He couldn't find a way to utilize that?  To be very simplistic does the team need both Ortiz and Westburg?

[Frobby]

3 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Sure, and I'm questioning that evaluation.

They have a bottleneck of middle infielders.  He couldn't find a way to utilize that?  To be very simplistic does the team need both Ortiz and Westburg?

We have no idea what discussions we had or who we could have gotten for whom.  So, I’m not going to spend my time second guessing based on inadequate information.