John Angelos chews out Dan Connolly

[Going Underground]

57 minutes ago, eddie83 said:

I’m sure they are. 
 

The cynic in me makes me wonder about the Orioles money and how and where it’s being used. 

Pound It Out Loud music label?

[eddie83]

5 minutes ago, Going Underground said:

Pound It Out Loud music label?

How many hits has the label pounded out? 

[spiritof66]

12 hours ago, AnythingO's said:

I wonder if there is any way to determine if that $10 M figure includes the current $5 M "pledge" to College Bound?????

I'm pretty sure it doesn't since 

 

12 hours ago, AnythingO's said:

OK Semper Fi, I have tried to find the 2022 data to update the file but it isn't available yet. So, what we know is that Revenue for MLB increased from $9.56 B to $10.8 B in 2022. I took the O's revenue for 2021 out of the $9.56 B for MLB to create an "O's share" ratio and applied it to 2022. If I am right the O's OI rises to $113 M in 2022. Since MLB attendance overall was down 4 M from 2019 when the Revenue was $10.7 B and the new broadcast money doesn't hit until 2023, the only thing I can think of that boosted MLB Revenue to the new record is that the $30 M per team from Disney is counted in MLB Revenue. Estimates in bold, 

Year	Revenue	Salaries	Payroll + Expenses	Revenue - Expenses	Operating Income	Operating Cost
2014	245	110	122	123	31.4	91.6
2015	239	118.9	137	102	8.8	93.2
2016	253	147.7	162	91	-2.1	93.1
2017	252	164.3	183	69	-26	95
2018	251	143	161	90	-6.5	96.5
2019	256	61.1	103	153	57	96
2020	115	23.9	43	72	-23	95
2021	251	45.7	66	185	83	102
2022	283	44.88	65	218	113	105

 

I believe this is Forbes data. Forbes used to say (and I think still does) that its revenue and profit numbers doesn't include the revenues that some teams get from their ownership of regional sports networks like MASN.  

[eddie83]

18 hours ago, eddie83 said:

This reads John used this to benefit his lifestyle. $1.7M to buy a home Saratoga Springs, NY, and another $2.5M was sent to John months later. Both in 2021. 
 

$26.75M transferred to a checking account of his wife. Occurred after a lawsuit vs the firm. To shield assets. 
 

John basically took daddy’s account and did what he wanted. 

I wanted to be clear here. The $26.75M apparently was moved to Georgia’s account. I may have insinuated it went to John’s wife. 

[Moose Milligan]

*yawns*

[Frobby]

2 hours ago, spiritof66 said:

I'm pretty sure it doesn't since 

 

I believe this is Forbes data. Forbes used to say (and I think still does) that its revenue and profit numbers doesn't include the revenues that some teams get from their ownership of regional sports networks like MASN.  

Correct.  The rights fees paid by the RSN are counted, the profits of the RSN are not.  Of course, due to the MASN litigation, neither of those numbers are certain and we don’t know what Forbes uses.  

[Tony-OH]

4 hours ago, eddie83 said:

I’m sure they are. 
 

The cynic in me makes me wonder about the Orioles money and how and where it’s being used. 

Well the one thing that's openly obvious, the money being spent on the major league team is judicious at best. Their $48,841,666 projected payroll for 2023 is 28th of 20 teams. not exactly a liftoff.

I'm just going to remain as consistent as possible on my feelings on ownership. Whether it's Peter, Georgia, John or Lou running things it's still an Angelos. As long as it's an Angelos running things the organization will be run on a shoe-string budget until it's sold. 

There will be no "lift-offs" or trading for big salaries like they did in Houston to take that next step. 

The number one goal for every Orioles fan should be that this team is sold to an owner that will actually want to pay for a 1st class product that Orioles fans deserve.

They hired the right guy to rebuild the franchise from within with Elias, but I don't believe he's been given the funds to take that next step and he won't as long as the Angelos family drama continues as owners of this franchise.

 

[RVAOsFan]

2 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

Well the one thing that's openly obvious, the money being spent on the major league team is judicious at best. Their $48,841,666 projected payroll for 2023 is 28th of 20 teams. not exactly a liftoff.

I'm just going to remain as consistent as possible on my feelings on ownership. Whether it's Peter, Georgia, John or Lou running things it's still an Angelos. As long as it's an Angelos running things the organization will be run on a shoe-string budget until it's sold. 

There will be no "lift-offs" or trading for big salaries like they did in Houston to take that next step. 

The number one goal for every Orioles fan should be that this team is sold to an owner that will actually want to pay for a 1st class product that Orioles fans deserve.

They hired the right guy to rebuild the franchise from within with Elias, but I don't believe he's been given the funds to take that next step and he won't as long as the Angelos family drama continues as owners of this franchise.

 

How sad is it that as a life long Washington Redskins / Football Team / Commanders fan my bar for bad ownership is so low I often forget that the Orioles could have much better ownership?  At least the Orioles have brought in a competent FO and seem to be letting them do SOME things right.

[Going Underground]

1 hour ago, Tony-OH said:

Well the one thing that's openly obvious, the money being spent on the major league team is judicious at best. Their $48,841,666 projected payroll for 2023 is 28th of 20 teams. not exactly a liftoff.

I'm just going to remain as consistent as possible on my feelings on ownership. Whether it's Peter, Georgia, John or Lou running things it's still an Angelos. As long as it's an Angelos running things the organization will be run on a shoe-string budget until it's sold. 

There will be no "lift-offs" or trading for big salaries like they did in Houston to take that next step. 

The number one goal for every Orioles fan should be that this team is sold to an owner that will actually want to pay for a 1st class product that Orioles fans deserve.

They hired the right guy to rebuild the franchise from within with Elias, but I don't believe he's been given the funds to take that next step and he won't as long as the Angelos family drama continues as owners of this franchise.

 

Does John Angelos really want to sell? He makes a nice profit on MASN and the Orioles Who knows what happens with the law firm. When he signs the new lease ,he will some nice money from the state to fix up Camden Yards. He will be able to have more concerts,etc. I don't think he wants to work for his wife's record label. Not sure he could be a country star.

Also Thomas Kelso, the head of the Maryland Stadium Authority is going to be replaced by the new governor.Probably doesn't matter to the lease negotiations because they are supposedly getting closer to a deal 

[OriolesMagic83]

6 hours ago, eddie83 said:

I’m sure they are. 
 

The cynic in me makes me wonder about the Orioles money and how and where it’s being used. 

I'm sure it's being spent wisely on things like vacations to Europe and 3rd or 4th homes.

[Tony-OH]

1 hour ago, Going Underground said:

Does John Angelos really want to sell? He makes a nice profit on MASN and the Orioles Who knows what happens with the law firm. When he signs the new lease ,he will some nice money from the state to fix up Camden Yards. He will be able to have more concerts,etc. I don't think he wants to work for his wife's record label. Not sure he could be a country star.

Also Thomas Kelso, the head of the Maryland Stadium Authority is going to be replaced by the new governor.Probably doesn't matter to the lease negotiations because they are supposedly getting closer to a deal 

It's a great question. From all indications the Orioles are very profitable whether they win or lose as long as they keep the salaries down which is what they've done. 

I don't personally think John cares whether the team wins of loses as long as it suits his ability to feel important and make money.

[spiritof66]

18 hours ago, AnythingO's said:

I wonder if there is any way to determine if that $10 M figure includes the current $5 M "pledge" to College Bound?????

Screwed this up earlier. I was trying to say that I'm pretty sure the CollegeBound pledge isn't included in the $10 million since the website says $10 million is the amount donated to charities and the Orioles haven't donated anything to CollegeBound yet.

[spiritof66]

1 hour ago, Going Underground said:

Does John Angelos really want to sell? He makes a nice profit on MASN and the Orioles Who knows what happens with the law firm. When he signs the new lease ,he will some nice money from the state to fix up Camden Yards. He will be able to have more concerts,etc. I don't think he wants to work for his wife's record label. Not sure he could be a country star.

Also Thomas Kelso, the head of the Maryland Stadium Authority is going to be replaced by the new governor.Probably doesn't matter to the lease negotiations because they are supposedly getting closer to a deal 

I don't know what John wants, but I don't think it matters what he wants. How is Peter Angelos's estate going to pay the federal estate taxes due on the value of, let's say 67 percent of the value of the Orioles? Those taxes will be in the neighborhood of $500 million. Whether or not John and his mother have been robbing peter to pay themselves, there's not cash like that sitting around, no other source of substantial income that we know about (the law firm used to generate income for Peter but doesn't any longer. There's MASN, but its future income to the Orioles (and hence its value) are uncertain.

I can't understand why anyone thinks MLB would approve John, or even more so John and Lou, as the new majority owners: they carry with them the legacy of Peter Angelos's  obstreperous and unsuccessful ownership, even before Peter dies, John and Lou are fighting over who will be entitled to what from his estate, there will be no majority owner of the team unless Lou gets eliminated (more lawsuits) or is bought out by John (more financial strain on John), they have continued suing MLB in a lawsuit that drives the Commissioner nuts, their politics (John's anyway) are completely at odds with that of most MLB owners, they carried tanking to such an extreme that MLB had to change the rules, they will have to operate on the cheap forever to keep the team going after the payment of estate taxes (if that's even possible), they have no outside source of income, they will be unable to survive a revenue downturn, and ownership by John or both brothers will run the risk of MLB's nightmare: a bankruptcy of the tea, in which MLB loses its right to veto new ownership. 

I believe that in 2020 the Angeloses made a deal with MLB that permits Georgia to run things until Peter dies rather than force a sale now (and much greater tax obligations) and obligates the Angeloses to sell upon Peter's death. As I'll explain when I get some time to lay it out, I can't find another way to explain what's happened between MLB and the Angeloses.

[AnythingO's]

I think it was Louis that said John wants the family to maintain controlling interest in the O's and didn't John stop the sale being driven by Georgia a while ago? If that assumption is right, then wouldn't the shares go to Georgia when PA passes? Does a spousal transfer delay the inheritance tax issue? If so, wouldn't that allow JA to continue to "suit his ability to make money and feel important"? I know that flies in the face of your belief that there is an agreement to sell with MLB after PA passes.

[NCRaven]

39 minutes ago, spiritof66 said:

I believe that in 2020 the Angeloses made a deal with MLB that permits Georgia to run things until Peter dies rather than force a sale now (and much greater tax obligations) and obligates the Angeloses to sell upon Peter's death. As I'll explain when I get some time to lay it out, I can't find another way to explain what's happened between MLB and the Angeloses.

I don't recall any obligation or requirement for Mrs. Angelos to sell the team imposed by MLB.  Now, if you mean that a potential tax obligation may required John and Lou to sell upon her death, that's a different matter.