Jackson Holliday 2023

[Tony-OH]

5 minutes ago, Three Run Homer said:

His numbers at Aberdeen are almost identical to his numbers in Delmarva.  He's figured out whatever he needed to figure out in high A.  They could promote him to Bowie today and I'd be fine with that.  

Well they won't promote him mid-week, so at the earliest it will be next week. The Ironbirds are home next week and the Baysox are home the week of May 30th. My guess if they decide to move him it will be that week.

[Frobby]

4 hours ago, Billy F-Face3 said:

I'm very familiar with the Oklahoma area that Jackson is from, and I can tell you from experience that there's much more to do in the Baltimore area for a young man like Jackson Holliday to enjoy. And that's if you want a variety of nature, or a more uptempo night life. Baltimore sits smack dab in the middle between the Appalachian Mountain and and beaches of the eastern shore. And if he likes boating and fishing, there's plenty of that to go around up and down the Chesapeake Bay. In Oklahoma, they have Lake Thunderbird, and Lake Hefner. But Lake Hefner is drinking water so there are a lot of restrictions. There's alot more options in the greater Baltimore area.

I've never been to Alabama or Georgia so I couldn't speak on that with regards to Gunnar.

Matt Holliday could have lived anywhere in the country after he retired, but he chose to return home to Stillwater OK and raise his family there.  That tells you a lot about his values.  

Also, when Matt Holliday was a player, represented by Scott Boras, he was traded to St. Louis, played out the last pre-FA year there, became a free agent, and ultimately re-signed with St. Louis.  He didn’t sign an extension with his original club, though I’ll bet they tried.  But when he was with a perennial winner, he tested the FA waters but stuck to the winning team he knew.  

So, Jackson Holliday is not his dad.  But, that history tells us some likely scenarios.  I seriously doubt Jackson will sign an extension before free agency.  If he likes Baltimore, he’ll give the Orioles a fair shot to re-sign him once he’s a free agent.  But I wouldn’t expect any big discount.  

 

[Mr-splash]

13 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

Well they won't promote him mid-week, so at the earliest it will be next week. The Ironbirds are home next week and the Baysox are home the week of May 30th. My guess if they decide to move him it will be that week.

Probably wont be promoted until June. Even if he were to torch AA and AAA pitching this year he will begin next season in the minors. Service time manipulation. There is no way the Orioles will surrender a year of control. 

[Tony-OH]

8 minutes ago, Mr-splash said:

Probably wont be promoted until June. Even if he were to torch AA and AAA pitching this year he will begin next season in the minors. Service time manipulation. There is no way the Orioles will surrender a year of control. 

Well that depends on a few things like need. I'll agree with you that we will not see Holliday most likely until 2025 no matter what he continues to do as long as the SS position is doing well with either Mateo or Ortiz. If there is a hole next year for some reason, and the Orioles are in contention, and Holliday is playing well in AAA, I could see the Orioles pulling him up next year.

I do think service time stuff certainly plays a role in promotions with the Orioles, but Holliday is a different beast and I do see a path for him to playing in Baltimore by next year sometime. It will really be up to his performance and current need.

[SemperFi]

3 hours ago, Mr-splash said:

 

There plenty of hall of famers with a great hit tool and mediocre or even bad field, arm, power and field tool. 

 

How many HOFers have a good arm tool and crap other tools?

I concede offense is more important.  Most HOF's had long careers and we remember the end (Mays, Mantle Etc..Etc..)  Frankly I can't think of many that were not considered very good to elite defenders at one time their career Eddie, Frank and Cal being prime examples.  Try to name a HOF that was considered a poor defender in his prime-I'm sure they exist but not many.

[Can_of_corn]

4 minutes ago, SemperFi said:

I concede offense is more important.  Most HOF's had long careers and we remember the end (Mays, Mantle Etc..Etc..)  Frankly I can't think of many that were not considered very good to elite defenders at one time their career Eddie, Frank and Cal being prime examples.  Try to name a HOF that was considered a poor defender in his prime-I'm sure they exist but not many.

David Ortiz.

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, Can_of_corn said:

David Ortiz.

Derek Jeter.

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, Can_of_corn said:

Derek Jeter.

Ted Williams.

[Ridgway22]

1 hour ago, Can_of_corn said:

Derek Jeter.

LOL, that is an awesome reference.

 

On Jeter's 2010 Gold Glove Award: 

Jeter’s -4.7 UZR wasn’t anywhere near the top—in fact, it was third-worst among AL shortstops. That’s a full 15.5 runs—the equivalent of nearly two wins—behind the rightful Gold Glove winner, the White Sox' Alexei Ramirez.

The biggest flaw in Jeter’s game is his abysmal range. 

Jeter committed only six errors, compared to Ramirez’s 20. But for every extra error Ramirez made, he also completed five more putouts and got 10 more assists. The plays Ramirez flubbed may have been more obvious than the mistakes Jeter made, but the fact of the matter is that Ramirez was a more effective defender.

Jeter’s -11.8 Range Runs ranked second-worst in the league. Keep in mind that he’s a shortstop, meaning his primary job is to cover a lot of ground. How can a fielder win a Gold Glove when he’s one of the worst in the business at getting to the ball?

Only twice since tracking began in 2002 has Jeter posted a positive UZR; over that time, he’s been worth -42.5 runs on defense—and that’s being generous. Total Zone has him at -60 runs over that stretch and an absolutely awful -131 runs in his career.

 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/513855-damn-yankees-the-pure-insanity-of-derek-jeters-gold-glove

Edited May 18, 2023 by Ridgway22
added reference.

[deward]

2 hours ago, Tony-OH said:

Well that depends on a few things like need. I'll agree with you that we will not see Holliday most likely until 2025 no matter what he continues to do as long as the SS position is doing well with either Mateo or Ortiz. If there is a hole next year for some reason, and the Orioles are in contention, and Holliday is playing well in AAA, I could see the Orioles pulling him up next year.

I do think service time stuff certainly plays a role in promotions with the Orioles, but Holliday is a different beast and I do see a path for him to playing in Baltimore by next year sometime. It will really be up to his performance and current need.

If Holliday were to keep hitting like he is at AA to finish this year and then AAA to start next year, I'd be pretty surprised if Elias doesn't make room for him next summer, even if the incumbent at the time is playing well. Based on what we're seeing this year, I think he'd have to have run into a level that challenges him somewhere in the upper minors in order to stay down all the way until 2025.

[Mr-splash]

9 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

If we gave Adley an extension of 10 years it would go until he was 35. It would have to be for top of the market money as he would basically be bypassing ever becoming a FA. Now as for Holliday, he is 19. Even if we signed him to a 13 year contract (the longest contract of length that I know of in the sport). He would be 33 when the contract runs to it's duration, again bypassing FA. I'm not sure that you are going to get either player to agree to that. IMO if I was advising them I would tell them not to do that, as they would not be maximizing their career earning potential. These guys have a short window of time to take advantage of what they are worth and they have worked too hard to get to this point where they can do so.

Now as far as the DET thing goes, no neither of our guys is comparable to Miguel Cabrera if we get them to extend early. Miggy is now 40 and everybody knew that his contract was going to have 3/4 unproductive years on the back end, in particular at the age he signed. We need to maybe shoot for Adley to be taken care of like Buster Posey and have a career around that length of time. His contract didn't crush the Giants. Back to Miggy, DET has done A LOT MORE things wrong to get to where they are.

I think a realistic extension with Holliday is a player opt out after 9 seasons which will take him to about age 29. Boras will want to set him up to get at least one more bite of the apple then. That's probably the best case scenario for a length of deal that will work for the club and player.

Power and OBP guys age like wine. Goldschmidt won the MVP last year and he was 35. He might win it again this year. Adley has an old man's game. I'm not worried about him having issues later in his career. He has old skills.

[Bemorewins]

17 minutes ago, Mr-splash said:

Power and OBP guys age like wine. Goldschmidt won the MVP last year and he was 35. He might win it again this year. Adley has an old man's game. I'm not worried about him having issues later in his career. He has old skills.

Agreed. Adley is an elite hitter, even if/when he can’t catch anymore, he will still be valuable.

[Mr-splash]

Will be interesting if teams pitch around Holliday and refuse to challenge him in A ball. If that happens he needs a promotion. 

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

8 hours ago, SemperFi said:

I concede offense is more important.  Most HOF's had long careers and we remember the end (Mays, Mantle Etc..Etc..)  Frankly I can't think of many that were not considered very good to elite defenders at one time their career Eddie, Frank and Cal being prime examples.  Try to name a HOF that was considered a poor defender in his prime-I'm sure they exist but not many.

Derek Jeter.

[Just Regular]

12:56

Kyle: Does Jackson Holliday have a chance to play in the majors this year if he earns a promotion to AA and has a wRC+ of 200 again for 40 games?

12:56

Dan Szymborski: I think so