MLB Offseason Moves/Rumor Thread

[Moose Milligan]

1 minute ago, wildbillhiccup said:

What I have problem with is Roch calling himself a "reporter". That word indirectly implies some level of indepedence. He's not a reporter. He's a glorified company PR guy. Let's just call a spade a spade. 

This is semantics, I don't believe the word implies some sort of independence.  I think that's your confirmation bias coming through.  

We agree that he's a glorified company PR guy, but I don't care what he calls himself.  Titles are meaningless.

[sportsfan8703]

Paxton doesn’t bother me at all. The 2 guys that made sense were Stroman and Gibson. EdRod and Montgomery were/are pipe dreams. So is the cost of the SP available for trades. 

In FA bucks, I think Elias had to choose between Gibson and Kimbrel. His 3rd starter or better comment was about Cease. I’m sure he hoped a deal would’ve happened. 

This offseason has gone as expected. 

[Moose Milligan]

16 minutes ago, Yardball85 said:

Good post and good way of looking at things.  I wish I didn't get so frustrated over the lack of moves, but it just is what it is with this ownership. 

It's lazy to slam Angelos for this.  And I don't mean to slam your post or take a shot at you, I'm just saying it is what it is...and what it is, it's easy to slam Angelos for anything that we don't like on here that has to do with the Orioles.  From the lack of moves to the prices of tickets to the food that's sold at the stadium...I mean, I've seen Angelos blamed for all of it and more on here.  Some warranted, some of it's not.  But like I said, it's lazy to just chalk anything we don't like to Angelos.

At some point we have to recognize that Elias is complicit in this, too.  And I'm as big of an Elias fan on the board as anyone else, I think he's most likely been the most important hire in franchise history.  I don't think any of us envisioned this franchise being where it is today when he was hired a few years ago.  We've got international scouting, signing and development up and running in a really big way, we've adopted analytics, we've been crushing the drafts, we have a staggering amount of good to elite prospects in the system and just won 101 games with a shoestring budget.  If @Frobbywants to go back and dig up predictions from the offseason that we hired Elias in and see what people said, I don't think anyone here could have seen this.

But I also don't think Elias lands this job if he and JA don't see eye to eye on things like spending on free agents.  I'm assuming, at some point during the interview process, that JA asked Elias what his philosophies were on spending in free agency and if it's necessary to build a winner.  And Elias told him what he wanted to hear, either because he really feels that you don't need to spend a lot of money in free agency or because he wanted the job.  He wouldn't be the first person to tell a lie on a job interview.

So while we can bash JA for being cheap, I think we can also point to Elias for being cheap, too.  Let's keep in mind that he came from the Astros and the Astros have never spent big money on free agents.  I think a lot of us overlook that because the Astros have some big names, they have some star power.  They've also traded for some star power and took on some payroll, too.  But they're never been big spenders in free agency.  I mean, Hader just became their biggest free agent signing in recent history at 5/95.  I read on the Athletic the last time they spent more than 60 million was on Carlos Lee in 2006 when he got 6/100.

That's where Elias comes from, that's where his philosophies were developed and I think that's what he believes...that you don't have to spend in free agency to win.  

I'm Moose Milligan, thank you for coming to my TED Talk.

 

Edited January 23 by Moose Milligan

[sportsfan8703]

6 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

It's lazy to slam Angelos for this.  And I don't mean to slam your post or take a shot at you, I'm just saying it is what it is...and what it is, it's easy to slam Angelos for anything that we don't like on here that has to do with the Orioles.  From the lack of moves to the prices of tickets to the food that's sold at the stadium...I mean, I've seen Angelos blamed for all of it and more on here.  Some warranted, some of it's not.  But like I said, it's lazy to just chalk anything we don't like to Angelos.

At some point we have to recognize that Elias is complicit in this, too.  And I'm as big of an Elias fan on the board as anyone else, I think he's most likely been the most important hire in franchise history.  I don't think any of us envisioned this franchise being where it is today when he was hired a few years ago.  We've got international scouting, signing and development up and running in a really big way, we've adopted analytics, we've been crushing the drafts, we have a staggering amount of good to elite prospects in the system and just won 101 games with a shoestring budget.  If @Frobbywants to go back and dig up predictions from the offseason that we hired Elias in and see what people said, I don't think anyone here could have seen this.

But I also don't think Elias lands this job if he and JA don't see eye to eye on things like spending on free agents.  I'm assuming, at some point during the interview process, that JA asked Elias what his philosophies were on spending in free agency and if it's necessary to build a winner.  And Elias told him what he wanted to hear, either because he really feels that you don't need to spend a lot of money in free agency or because he wanted the job.  He wouldn't be the first person to tell a lie on a job interview.

So while we can bash JA for being cheap, I think we can also point to Elias for being cheap, too.  Let's keep in mind that he came from the Astros and the Astros have never spent big money on free agents.  I think a lot of us overlook that because the Astros have some big names, they have some star power.  They've also traded for some star power and took on some payroll, too.  But they're never been big spenders in free agency.  I mean, Hader just became their biggest free agent signing in recent history at 5/95.  I read on the Athletic the last time they spent more than 60 million was on Carlos Lee in 2006 when he got 6/100.

That's where Elias comes from, that's where his philosophies were developed and I think that's what he believes...that you don't have to spend in free agency to win.  

I'm Moose Milligan, thank you for coming to my TED Talk.

 

And we also need to understand that no matter how great the Astros have been in the regular season, it took a combo of “lucking” into two trades for Verlander and Cole, Charlie Morton becoming CY Young, lots of sticky stuff, trash cans, Altuve’s device, and trading for Roberto Osuna and his questionable background that nobody else touched afterwards. 

[Moose Milligan]

Just now, sportsfan8703 said:

And we also need to understand that no matter how great the Astros have been in the regular season, it took a combo of “lucking” into two trades for Verlander and Cole, Charlie Morton becoming CY Young, lots of sticky stuff, trash cans, Altuve’s device, and trading for Roberto Osuna and his questionable background that nobody else touched afterwards. 

C'mon.  I mean, I've gotten over the Astros cheating scandal.  It happened, I thought it was hilarious (let's also not forget, it screwed over the Yankees so I never got too mad at it) but the Altuve device thing is reaching into conspiracy theory territory, it's never been proven.  They wouldn't be the only team experimenting with sticky stuff and kudos to them for turning Charlie Morton into something.  I also don't care that they traded for Osuna, I don't need my ballplayers to be choirboys.

The Astros are a great franchise.  They win and they've been winning for a long time.  

[Roll Tide]

38 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

This is semantics, I don't believe the word implies some sort of independence.  I think that's your confirmation bias coming through.  

We agree that he's a glorified company PR guy, but I don't care what he calls himself.  Titles are meaningless.

And he’s been quite irritated in the past when he was asked about such matters and insisting he can/does write what he wants 

[Yardball85]

25 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

It's lazy to slam Angelos for this.  And I don't mean to slam your post or take a shot at you, I'm just saying it is what it is...and what it is, it's easy to slam Angelos for anything that we don't like on here that has to do with the Orioles.  From the lack of moves to the prices of tickets to the food that's sold at the stadium...I mean, I've seen Angelos blamed for all of it and more on here.  Some warranted, some of it's not.  But like I said, it's lazy to just chalk anything we don't like to Angelos.

At some point we have to recognize that Elias is complicit in this, too.  And I'm as big of an Elias fan on the board as anyone else, I think he's most likely been the most important hire in franchise history.  I don't think any of us envisioned this franchise being where it is today when he was hired a few years ago.  We've got international scouting, signing and development up and running in a really big way, we've adopted analytics, we've been crushing the drafts, we have a staggering amount of good to elite prospects in the system and just won 101 games with a shoestring budget.  If @Frobbywants to go back and dig up predictions from the offseason that we hired Elias in and see what people said, I don't think anyone here could have seen this.

But I also don't think Elias lands this job if he and JA don't see eye to eye on things like spending on free agents.  I'm assuming, at some point during the interview process, that JA asked Elias what his philosophies were on spending in free agency and if it's necessary to build a winner.  And Elias told him what he wanted to hear, either because he really feels that you don't need to spend a lot of money in free agency or because he wanted the job.  He wouldn't be the first person to tell a lie on a job interview.

So while we can bash JA for being cheap, I think we can also point to Elias for being cheap, too.  Let's keep in mind that he came from the Astros and the Astros have never spent big money on free agents.  I think a lot of us overlook that because the Astros have some big names, they have some star power.  They've also traded for some star power and took on some payroll, too.  But they're never been big spenders in free agency.  I mean, Hader just became their biggest free agent signing in recent history at 5/95.  I read on the Athletic the last time they spent more than 60 million was on Carlos Lee in 2006 when he got 6/100.

That's where Elias comes from, that's where his philosophies were developed and I think that's what he believes...that you don't have to spend in free agency to win.  

I'm Moose Milligan, thank you for coming to my TED Talk.

 

I don't take this as slamming my post or having a shot taken at me, and I stand by my post.  JA has done nothing to win the hearts of people in Baltimore, from his slimy behavior at MLK press conference last year to his handling of Kevin Brown to the bizarre announcement that the Orioles had a deal to remain in Baltimore back in September when it was not truly agreed to until months later.

And you're right that the Astros did not spend big in free agency.  And the Orioles do not need to either.  But as you pointed out, the Astros have taken on payroll and made trades to improve.  It can't all come from homegrown players, even if you do an incredible job if growing your own players like the Astros have.  Still waiting on our Verlander/Cole impact trade.

[Moose Milligan]

5 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

And he’s been quite irritated in the past when he was asked about such matters and insisting he can/does write what he wants 

That's fine, he can get irritated all he wants.  I don't care.  

He's right, he can write what he wants.  As long as it's being fed to him from the franchise, and that's fine.

[Moose Milligan]

6 minutes ago, Yardball85 said:

I don't take this as slamming my post or having a shot taken at me, and I stand by my post.  JA has done nothing to win the hearts of people in Baltimore, from his slimy behavior at MLK press conference last year to his handling of Kevin Brown to the bizarre announcement that the Orioles had a deal to remain in Baltimore back in September when it was not truly agreed to until months later.

And you're right that the Astros did not spend big in free agency.  And the Orioles do not need to either.  But as you pointed out, the Astros have taken on payroll and made trades to improve.  It can't all come from homegrown players, even if you do an incredible job if growing your own players like the Astros have.  Still waiting on our Verlander/Cole impact trade.

JA hasn't done much, I agree.  I'm not defending him, he's been by and large a bad owner...or a sitting owner, or whatever his role is.  But I literally have seen people blame him for things on here such as food prices at the stadium which is silly.  

The Astros have taken on payroll in ways outside of free agency, the key words here being "taken on payroll".  I don't think the Orioles will anytime particularly soon.

I know we want a Verlander/Cole type but I think everyone here is going to be sorely disappointed when we don't get one.  I'm just going off patterns and what I've seen.

Edited January 23 by Moose Milligan

[Sports Guy]

I would rather give Hall a chance than sign Paxton.

[Sports Guy]

At this point, the Os don’t have Cease because Elias and Getz can’t get together on a trade. JA isn’t part of that equation.

[Moose Milligan]

40 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

At this point, the Os don’t have Cease because Elias and Getz can’t get together on a trade. JA isn’t part of that equation.

[Sports Guy]

1 minute ago, Moose Milligan said:

If reports are true and the Os are in on Cease and have been since the deadline, Elias has gotten the financial ok from Angelos to make the trade.  He wouldn’t be this far down the road with this if not.

Now, if the reports are false, maybe money is a factor.

JA doesn’t even know who the players we would trade are, so he’s not scoffing at that.

[Moose Milligan]

Just now, Sports Guy said:

If reports are true and the Os are in on Cease and have been since the deadline, Elias has gotten the financial ok from Angelos to make the trade.  He wouldn’t be this far down the road with this if not.

Now, if the reports are false, maybe money is a factor.

JA doesn’t even know who the players we would trade are, so he’s not scoffing at that.

I'm just kidding around with the gif, but I agree.  

[wildbillhiccup]

1 hour ago, Moose Milligan said:

This is semantics, I don't believe the word implies some sort of independence.  I think that's your confirmation bias coming through.  

We agree that he's a glorified company PR guy, but I don't care what he calls himself.  Titles are meaningless.

Yeah I don't agree. It's a subtle misrepresentation of what he is and who he works for. Sure everyone on OH knows that MASN employees works for the Orioles, but the casual fan not so much. Roch basically issues Orioles press releases or has "opinions" that I'm sure are vetted and approved by the team. Defining that as reporting or him as reporting just isn't accurate. So yeah, I think it does matter and that's my only issue with him.