Jackson Holliday 2024

[Hallas]

3 hours ago, Malike said:

I'd give him 150 ABs. I believe in the talent and he's not causing the team to lose games. 

I'm giving him to 100 PAs unless he shows us something.  Basically double what he has now.

 

When you're this bad I don't think you need a significant sample to have confidence that he's overwhelmed.  I felt the same way about Cowser last year and Holliday is far worse right now.

 

If he takes a month in the minors and rights himself he'll come right back up.  Stuff happens, he's 20, he'll get over it, and if he doesn't then he probably wasn't likely to ever have sustained MLB success anyway.

Edited April 22 by Hallas

[DirtyBird]

10 minutes ago, Hallas said:

if he takes a month in the minors and rights himself he'll come right back up.  Stuff happens, he's 20, he'll get over it, and if he doesn't then he probably wasn't likely to ever have sustained MLB success anyway.

What does righting himself in the minors look like?

[RZNJ]

2 minutes ago, DirtyBird said:

What does righting himself in the minors look like?

Switch hitting.

[Ohfan67]

5 minutes ago, DirtyBird said:

What does righting himself in the minors look like?

> 0.127 OPS 

But more seriously, we don’t know what they might want him to work on if he gets sent down. I would assume they would have specific things that he needs to improve. Not just “play better” because a few weeks of great hitting stats at Norfolk may not mean much. 

[Sports Guy]

2 hours ago, Pickles said:

That's fine.  That's a take with the appropriate amount of subtlety.

The silly rhetorical questions, "How can he learn to hit ML pitching in AAA?" devised to produce a foregone conclusion have no such subtlety. 

Silliness is met with silliness. 

[Hallas]

25 minutes ago, DirtyBird said:

What does righting himself in the minors look like?

OPS over .850, batted ball data that suggests it's not lucky, not striking out 30% of the time?

 

This is a layman's observation but I've noticed that Holliday has also been hitting it to center or the other way a lot in his minor league highlights, and then when he's in the majors he's been late to everything.  If I had to identify something specific to work on, I would likely want him to work on pulling the ball on a line or in the air a little bit more.

Edited April 22 by Hallas

[Frobby]

4 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Silliness is met with silliness. 

Let’s assume Holliday goes 1 for 20 this week.   Are you playing him next week against the Yankees?

[drjohnnyfever1]

Simply, he has to give them a reason to keep him up.  The line-drive out to 2B late in yesterday's game was a well hit ball.  If he doesn't get a hit, he at least needs to hit it hard.   He needs to make contact and not strike out.  I'm a little worried, but I do think that before they send him down - if they do - they need more data to see how they can begin to address his deficiencies there. 

I think everyday play is a bigger issue tho.  Is he worth keeping up if you can't continue putting him in the line-up as an automatic out.  I would much rather see him playing everyday in AAA than in some weak rotation where he's getting only sporadic playing time and at bats.

I believe he's gonna be fine, but he's got the hiccups.

[Safelykept]

3 hours ago, Three Run Homer said:

I would give him through the end of the upcoming homestand to get on track.  

No big deal to send him down.  We've done it with other top prospects and none of them were permanently scarred.  

I'd give him thru the May 8 road trip. Platoon him more, have him come off the bench more, put him in lower leverage situations. Needs to pick up a couple of hits even if their cheapies. Something to get some bounce in his step. His look after striking out on that 3-2 pitch (center cut, looking) was telling

[Sports Guy]

1 hour ago, Frobby said:

Let’s assume Holliday goes 1 for 20 this week.   Are you playing him next week against the Yankees?

It depends on a few things. It’s not just outs.

But if he goes 1-20 and looks bad doing it, I would be fine with sending him down for service time reasons.

But I expect him to go down there, play at a high level and get brought back up…and if he plays better people will say, see he needed to go back down…which of course is bs.

If it were up to me, I would probably go to 75-100 at bats before making a move.

Edited April 22 by Sports Guy

[Satyr3206]

1 hour ago, Frobby said:

Let’s assume Holliday goes 1 for 20 this week.   Are you playing him next week against the Yankees?

No. Send him down in that case.

[Sanity Check]

1 hour ago, DirtyBird said:

What does righting himself in the minors look like?

Another week against Charlotte's pitching staff

[Hallas]

13 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

It depends on a few things. It’s not just outs.

But if he goes 1-20 and looks bad doing it, I would be fine with sending him down for service time reasons.

But I expect him to go down there, play at a high level and get brought back up…and if he plays better people will say, see he needed to go back down…which of course is bs.

If it were up to me, I would probably go to 75-100 at bats before making a move.

75-100 total?  Or additional?

[Sanity Check]

6 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

It depends on a few things. It’s not just outs.

But if he goes 1-20 and looks bad doing it, I would be fine with sending him down for service time reasons.

But I expect him to go down there, play at a high level and get brought back up…and if he plays better people will say, see he needed to go back down…which of course is bs.

Just like it was bs for Grayson.  I don't buy the argument that resetting as a pitcher or a hitter is very different...it allows a player to focus and work on things without the major league pressure AND get their confidence back.  

If he gets sent back down and then comes up and does much better, can we just be happy with that and not worry about what people might say?  Are we that sensitive about possibly being wrong if we get a favorable outcome?  Or, is it just about being right?  It's actually okay to be wrong once in a while.

[Sports Guy]

7 minutes ago, Sanity Check said:

Just like it was bs for Grayson.  I don't buy the argument that resetting as a pitcher or a hitter is very different...it allows a player to focus and work on things without the major league pressure AND get their confidence back.  

If he gets sent back down and then comes up and does much better, can we just be happy with that and not worry about what people might say?  Are we that sensitive about possibly being wrong if we get a favorable outcome?  Or, is it just about being right?  It's actually okay to be wrong once in a while.

You keep bringing up Grayson but it’s an absolutely terrible comp.

Grayson failed in ST. He looked awful. He didn’t look good at the end of the previous year and he was hurt.  Then, he got brought up quickly and for the most part, looked bad again. His mechanics were out of whack and that went back to the season before. He needed to go to the minors to start the year and probably shouldn’t have been brought up to begin with.  I was ok with it but he clearly just wasn’t ready.

None of that is even remotely similar to this situation. There is no injury, there was no poor play at any point. It’s 30 shitty at bats where he has had some terrible calls go against him and a little bit of a bad luck on some batted balls. Yes, he has largely not looked good.  Oh the horror!  Imagine a 20 year old in his first stint struggling early on.  I’m shocked and appalled!

Its an apples to Buicks comparison.  Just stop with the GRod stuff. If you want to bring up a comp and attempt to have an actual conversation, the comp would be Cowser…or you can talk about Bregman. 
 

And your last paragraph is just stupidity at its finest.