What did DT do wrong tonight?

[Mike B]

Well, I have to hold DT accountable for his windmill policy ta 3B. I have to think Samuel is not entirely on his own there. Also I wondered about Baez not goin at least 2 to night. DT doesn't like to use him on consecutive days so why not? Otherwise good job taking Hendriickson out and knowing that Bass would be filthy.

A third base coach is entirely on his own on when to send a runner or not. A manager may tell him to be passive or aggressive, but the decisions are on him. Today was a bad choice by Samuel. Lou probably lost 2 steps by not breaking on the hit but Samuel needs to see that.

I really do not think Samuel has been bad. I like sending a runner with 2 outs if there is an even chance. Getting thrown out at the plate is largely about the other teams execution as opposed to bad decisions. Making the outfielders or the cut off man making a play with two outs often provides a better scoring chance than a hitter coming through. Unless, that hitter is Jones, Nick or Huff (maybe Mora).

[El Gordo]

I never heard of a 3B coach not being on his own when it comes to making middle-of-a-play decisions like that.

I'm saying that DT has set a policy of baserunning aggressiveness that Samuel is following. Of course Jaun is on his own play by play.

[LookitsPuck]

I never heard of a 3B coach not being on his own when it comes to making middle-of-a-play decisions like that.

DT has been aggressive, and has certainly been aggressive since his tenure here. The baserunning blunders are certainly the direct result of Dave Trembley, and we need to be a bit more conservative on the base paths, especially on no brainers like Montanez getting thrown out at the plate.

[Mike B]

I'm saying that DT has set a policy of baserunning aggressiveness that Samuel is following. Of course Jaun is on his own play by play.

Third Base coach is instinct based. If you want to criticize DT, for his choice of 3rd base coaches then I can see that but criticizing him for wanting to be aggressive then that is a little of a stretch. I would imagine that if asked most managers want to push the action with 2 outs. Pushing the action with no outs is a different story. Samuel made a bad call tonight with Montanez. It is part of the game. It was a mistake.

[RShack]

I'm saying that DT has set a policy of baserunning aggressiveness that Samuel is following. Of course Jaun is on his own play by play.

Well, I really don't know, but here's my guess about what mangers say to 3B coaches as their general instructions:

• A conservative manager says, "Don't send him unless he can beat the throw."
• An aggressive manager says, "Send him if it takes a perfect throw to get him."

I'm sure it's not that simple, and it makes a diff about how many outs, and who's coming up, and what inning, and what's the score, and who's doing the throwing, etc., but I think those are your two basic flavors. I think everyone would agree that DT would be the 2nd flavor. In general, that's fine with me simply because I don't see very many perfect throws. In this case, I gather that Samuel goofed and sent him when only a non-terrible throw was needed. So, I don't think that's on DT.

[El Gordo]

Well, I really don't know, but here's my guess about what mangers say to 3B coaches as their general instructions:

• A conservative manager says, "Don't send him unless he can beat the throw."
• An aggressive manager says, "Send him if it takes a perfect throw to get him."

I'm sure it's not that simple, and it makes a diff about how many outs, and who's coming up, and what inning, and what's the score, and who's doing the throwing, etc., but I think those are your two basic flavors. I think everyone would agree that DT would be the 2nd flavor. In general, that's fine with me simply because I don't see very many perfect throws. In this case, I gather that Samuel goofed and sent him when only a non-terrible throw was needed. So, I don't think that's on DT.

If DT's policy was the first one then Samuel would not have sent him especially not with less than two outs.

[RShack]

If DT's policy was the first one then Samuel would not have sent him especially not with less than two outs.

From what I saw from the video replay, if he had read the situation properly, he wouldn't have sent him no matter which the two policies DT has. It didn't take a perfect throw to get him. It just took a non-catastrophic throw. He just goofed and read the action wrong.

[El Gordo]

From what I saw from the video replay, if he had read the situation properly, he wouldn't have sent him no matter which the two policies DT has. It didn't take a perfect throw to get him. It just took a non-catastrophic throw. He just goofed and read the action wrong.

Yes but he also sent Huff when he shouldn't have and lucked out. was that two screw ups in one night or a result of the aggressive base running policy? I am not a fan of this general aggressiveness. I would like to see a more selective version. Giving Jones, Roberts, and Izzy their head and playing H&R to stay out of the DP.

[RShack]

Yes but he also sent Huff when he shouldn't have and lucked out. was that two screw ups in one night or a result of the aggressive base running policy? I am not a fan of this general aggressiveness. I would like to see a more selective version. Giving Jones, Roberts, and Izzy their head and playing H&R to stay out of the DP.

I didn't see the Huff play. In what way did he luck out? Not disagreeing with you, I just don't know. If Huff would have been out with a perfect throw and was safe because the throw was non-perfect, then that's not crazy. You might disagree with it, but it's not crazy. However, I don't know if that's what happened.

[El Gordo]

I didn't see the Huff play. In what way did he luck out? Not disagreeing with you, I just don't know. If Huff would have been out with a perfect throw and was safe because the throw was non-perfect, then that's not crazy. You might disagree with it, but it's not crazy. However, I don't know if that's what happened.

Huff started back to 2B on a ground ball hit to SS behind him. In fact he shielded the SS from making the play on the ball. When it got through he reversed direction. Upton dogged it on the play and threw to the cut off man. Had he come to the plate with a half decent throw Huff would have been a dead duck. In some ways it was a worse call than the Monty play.

[tywright]

I'm not going to go through the whole thread, but has anybody given credit to DT yet for deciding to put Jones in the 2 spot back in Spring Training?

[Mackus]

Yes but he also sent Huff when he shouldn't have and lucked out. was that two screw ups in one night or a result of the aggressive base running policy? I am not a fan of this general aggressiveness. I would like to see a more selective version. Giving Jones, Roberts, and Izzy their head and playing H&R to stay out of the DP.

I blame Montanez for not scoring on the first one, not Samuel. He should've beaten that throw easily even after freezing as soon as it was hit.

That one is on Lou for not running hard, not Samuel for sending him under the assumption he would move quickly.

The second one, I think was a bad move by Samuel that ended up working out because Upton inexplicably threw to the cutoff man.

So two moves, the first got thrown out the second scored, and I think Samuel made the right call on the first but not on the second. Weird.

[El Gordo]

I blame Montanez for not scoring on the first one, not Samuel. He should've beaten that throw easily even after freezing as soon as it was hit.

That one is on Lou for not running hard, not Samuel for sending him under the assumption he would move quickly.

The second one, I think was a bad move by Samuel that ended up working out because Upton inexplicably threw to the cutoff man.

So two moves, the first got thrown out the second scored, and I think Samuel made the right call on the first but not on the second. Weird.

Monty was running hard. He had a poor read on the ball when it was hit and didn't get a good jump. He should have scored with a better read and jump, but Samuel shoulod have seen he couldn't make it and not have sent him. During the play you could see Monty was going to be out before he got to 3b, and you could hear Palmer groan "Oh no!' at that point. He should have been held up.

[Tx Oriole]

I didn't notice anything tonight, but I support keeping this thread active to catalog things.

I sure don't. JIMO

[Mackus]

Monty was running hard. He had a poor read on the ball when it was hit and didn't get a good jump. He should have scored with a better read and jump, but Samuel shoulod have seen he couldn't make it and not have sent him. During the play you could see Monty was going to be out before he got to 3b, and you could hear Palmer groan "Oh no!' at that point. He should have been held up.

I was sitting right behind the 3B dugout and watched him the entire time. He was not running fast at all, he can run much faster. I know he froze initially, but I think he should have been able to score easily even after that. The blame is 100% on Lou, IMO, on that one. He should score easily on that soft liner even after the initial pause.