What did DT do wrong tonight?

[Mike B]

It's not one play. The O's are consistently horrible running the bases. They consistently make poor decisions defensively. Trembley often makes strange decisions that don't seem to take into consideration the stastical probabilities. These are all things that have been and continue to be problems for this team. A loss like today simply underscores the ongoing issues.

Cito Gaston also asks his guys to execute but he does everything he can to put his people into favorable matchups. It's a lot easier to execute if your manager does that.

You might have noticed in the 9th inning Cito did not bunt when the situation screamed for it. Snider hit into a DP, then in the 11th he has Snider bunt and he popped up. Neither worked and you are hear saying Cito puts his guys in the right spot. Common sense says at least 1 out of 2 he did no such thing. They won the game, so DT is a bad manager (not true) but Cito is a good one (True).

[Oriole Baseball]

Not at all. I just would like to see some objective examples of his supposed failings. What did you see tonight that you feel is an example of his poor bullpen mgt. You have often stated that opinion. How would you have handled it differently?

My biggest problem last night with Trembley was how he handled Sarfate. He gets him warmed up in the fourth, again in the fifth, and still sends Hendrickson back out for the sixth. Constantly getting up relievers and then sitting them back down and getting them up again will lead to arms burning out.

[El Gordo]

It's not one play. The O's are consistently horrible running the bases. They consistently make poor decisions defensively. Trembley often makes strange decisions that don't seem to take into consideration the stastical probabilities. These are all things that have been and continue to be problems for this team. A loss like today simply underscores the ongoing issues.

Cito Gaston also asks his guys to execute but he does everything he can to put his people into favorable matchups. It's a lot easier to execute if your manager does that.

How were they horrible running the bases to day? What should DT have done to prevent Jones and Markakis from bungling that play. What other poor defensive plays were made today?I don't find itstrange to bring in Walker to pitch to Millar. If you look at his numbers, Millar doesn't hit lefties all that well. Walking Hill or pitching to him is 6 of one half a dozen of the other IMO and in many others' opinion as well.

[El Gordo]

My biggest problem last night with Trembley was how he handled Sarfate. He gets him warmed up in the fourth, again in the fifth, and still sends Hendrickson back out for the sixth. Constantly getting up relievers and then sitting them back down and getting them up again will lead to arms burning out.

This is something DT rarely does, and tries very hard to avoid, Unlike Perlozzo, e.g.

[PaulFolk]

I had no problem with letting Bass face Hill. What else could he do? Alex Rios was on deck, and even though he hasn't been as good this year, he's a better hitter than Hill.

I groaned when Sherrill came in, but I can't put that on Trembley. I can't think of a single manager who wouldn't bring in their closer there, even with the right-handers coming up. It's just what modern baseball has become.

One move that did puzzle me was having Pie pinch-run for Wigginton in the 10th. He was the runner at first...but there was already a runner at second. What's Pie going to do? He can't steal a base that's occupied. No real reason to pinch-run for a trailing runner, and then you've got Pie as your DH for the rest of the game in case the O's blow the lead (which they did). That wasn't a big deal, but it made me scratch my head a bit.

[bluedog]

[/b]

You might have noticed in the 9th inning Cito did not bunt when the situation screamed for it. Snider hit into a DP, then in the 11th he has Snider bunt and he popped up. Neither worked and you are hear saying Cito puts his guys in the right spot. Common sense says at least 1 out of 2 he did no such thing. They won the game, so DT is a bad manager (not true) but Cito is a good one (True).

Neither situation was one where it was obviously the wrong call to bunt (or hit away). In both situations its a judgment call and neither one is wrong.

And just because someone does something and it doesn't work, doesn't mean its the wrong decision. If Trembley walks Hill and then Rios drives in the winning run, then it wouldn't have worked, but it still would have been the correct play from a statistical standpoint.

Gaston's boys are playing excellent fundamental baseball and also did so last season. Trembley's teams have never played fundamentally sound baseball. Not last year nor this year.

The Blue Jays are a winning team over the past two seasons, while the O's are losers. And before anyone starts yelling about the difference in the O's and Jays pitching, remember that the Jays have fought through an amazing number of injuries to their pitching staff this year and still lead the AL East because they are fundamentally sound and well coached.

Are you really suggesting that you saw no difference in the way these two teams have played through the first two games of this series?

[OrioleWay27]

I had no problem with letting Bass face Hill. What else could he do? Alex Rios was on deck, and even though he hasn't been as good this year, he's a better hitter than Hill.

I groaned when Sherrill came in, but I can't put that on Trembley. I can't think of a single manager who wouldn't bring in their closer there, even with the right-handers coming up. It's just what modern baseball has become.

One move that did puzzle me was having Pie pinch-run for Wigginton in the 10th. He was the runner at first...but there was already a runner at second. What's Pie going to do? He can't steal a base that's occupied. No real reason to pinch-run for a trailing runner, and then you've got Pie as your DH for the rest of the game in case the O's blow the lead (which they did). That wasn't a big deal, but it made me scratch my head a bit.

I hate Pie, but sending him in as a pinch-runner is a move many managers will make. With the lead, you're playing to add insurance runs. The idea is to be able to score from 1st on a double.

I have to disagree about pitching to Hill. He's been one of the hottest hitters in baseball for a full month. He hit a home run in his last at bat. Rios has been pedestrian at best all year. You set up a force play at any base by walking Hill.

I actually think it was a terrible move to pitch to Hill, and a no-brainer to walk him. I am really starting to question Trembley's competence as a major league manager in terms of managing game situations.

[El Gordo]

Neither situation was one where it was obviously the wrong call to bunt (or hit away). In both situations its a judgment call and neither one is wrong.

And just because someone does something and it doesn't work, doesn't mean its the wrong decision. If Trembley walks Hill and then Rios drives in the winning run, then it wouldn't have worked, but it still would have been the correct play from a statistical standpoint.

Gaston's boys are playing excellent fundamental baseball and also did so last season. Trembley's teams have never played fundamentally sound baseball. Not last year nor this year.

The Blue Jays are a winning team over the past two seasons, while the O's are losers. And before anyone starts yelling about the difference in the O's and Jays pitching, remember that the Jays have fought through an amazing number of injuries to their pitching staff this year and still lead the AL East because they are fundamentally sound and well coached.

Are you really suggesting that you saw no difference in the way these two teams have played through the first two games of this series?

The main difference I've seen over the last two games is the one between Halliday and Hendrickson. I seem to recall some pretty poor Jay defensive plays that we'll ingnore, because they won anyway.

[sector7g]

Pitching to Aaron Hill with first base open and Alex Rios on deck: reasonable decision.

Insisting that George Sherrill is your closer, come hell or high water, even though he absolutely stinks against right handed hitters: terrible decision.

Agree with this. If Trembley removes Sherrill from the closer role after this then I won't hold tonight against him. George earned a look at the closers role this year after starting so well last year. But if he sends him out there next time with three righties coming up then that's not good enough. Sherrill has had terrible numbers for a long time now, going back to the end of last year. You can't keep your head in the sand for ever.

[bluedog]

How were they horrible running the bases to day? What should DT have done to prevent Jones and Markakis from bungling that play. What other poor defensive plays were made today?I don't find itstrange to bring in Walker to pitch to Millar. If you look at his numbers, Millar doesn't hit lefties all that well. Walking Hill or pitching to him is 6 of one half a dozen of the other IMO and in many others' opinion as well.

Jones should know that in a ballpark like Toronto with a ground ball pitcher on the mound in Bergesen, that its tantamount to keep any ball that's hit to the outfield in front of him. Diving or over-running a play to attempt catch a ball that will be a single is not worth the risk of allowing the hitter to get extra bases - especially on turf with a ground ball pitcher on the mound.

The O's play in Toronto every year. They know the park. They know that its far easier to turn double plays on fast turf than anywhere else. Maybe you try to make that play with runners in scoring position in a tight game - but not against the leadoff hitter.

This is something that a "teaching" manager like Trembley should have stressed to his young outfielders (Jones & Montanez) before the game. Good managers do that. Now maybe he did say something and maybe Jones ignored it, but I doubt that's the case.

As for the out on the bases where Roberts tried to make it into 3rd on a ball hit to left field, I just don't understand why you'd take the risk there with Markakis on deck, two men on, against a young starting pitcher. Perhaps its Roberts being too aggressive, but this has happened many, many times this season. Trembley needs to get control of his players and make sure that they don't take unnecessary risks like that unless the situation warrants it. Being aggressive is fine and good, but taking foolish risks isn't.

[Mike B]

Neither situation was one where it was obviously the wrong call to bunt (or hit away). In both situations its a judgment call and neither one is wrong.

And just because someone does something and it doesn't work, doesn't mean its the wrong decision. If Trembley walks Hill and then Rios drives in the winning run, then it wouldn't have worked, but it still would have been the correct play from a statistical standpoint.

Gaston's boys are playing excellent fundamental baseball and also did so last season. Trembley's teams have never played fundamentally sound baseball. Not last year nor this year.

The Blue Jays are a winning team over the past two seasons, while the O's are losers. And before anyone starts yelling about the difference in the O's and Jays pitching, remember that the Jays have fought through an amazing number of injuries to their pitching staff this year and still lead the AL East because they are fundamentally sound and well coached.

Are you really suggesting that you saw no difference in the way these two teams have played through the first two games of this series?

You went totally past the point that I was making. My point is that all managers make moves during a game and if the game is won, very few times are they scrutinized. The two I mentioned turned out wrong for Cito. I do not think they were wrong. I think Cito was trying to give a poor bunter a chance to hit and then the second time was playing the percentage move. Had that been DT people would have been screaming, especially if they were in a loss.

DT IMO made the right move pitching to Hill, had a nice hit and run in the 9th to get the lead, got Cito to switch off Overbay against Baez, but we lost so he is the goat.

As for fundamentals, do you honestly believe we do not stress them. It comes down to execution. The players have to execute. The other issue is that we see the O's every day, so we do not see other teams mistakes. The Orioles coaches are not bad baseball guys, the problem is the players are not executing. If we had a pitching staff and were winning the every day mistakes, that occur with every team would not be as magnified.

[bluedog]

The main difference I've seen over the last two games is the one between Halliday and Hendrickson. I seem to recall some pretty poor Jay defensive plays that we'll ingnore, because they won anyway.

Then you're not watching very closely. The main difference between the O's and Jays is the O's bullpen giving up 6 runs in 7 2/3 innings while the Jays relievers gave up 1 unearned run in 6 1/3 innings.

The O's starters (including Hendrickson) gave up 7 runs in 12 innings while the Jays (including Halladay) gave up 7 runs (1 unearned) in 13 1/3 innings.

[El Gordo]

Jones should know that in a ballpark like Toronto with a ground ball pitcher on the mound in Bergesen, that its tantamount to keep any ball that's hit to the outfield in front of him. Diving or over-running a play to attempt catch a ball that will be a single is not worth the risk of allowing the hitter to get extra bases - especially on turf with a ground ball pitcher on the mound.

The O's play in Toronto every year. They know the park. They know that its far easier to turn double plays on fast turf than anywhere else. Maybe you try to make that play with runners in scoring position in a tight game - but not against the leadoff hitter.

This is something that a "teaching" manager like Trembley should have stressed to his young outfielders (Jones & Montanez) before the game. Good managers do that. Now maybe he did say something and maybe Jones ignored it, but I doubt that's the case.

As for the out on the bases where Roberts tried to make it into 3rd on a ball hit to left field, I just don't understand why you'd take the risk there with Markakis on deck, two men on, against a young starting pitcher. Perhaps its Roberts being too aggressive, but this has happened many, many times this season. Trembley needs to get control of his players and make sure that they don't take unnecessary risks like that unless the situation warrants it. Being aggressive is fine and good, but taking foolish risks isn't.

You do realize how rediculous this sounds? You think a manager goes around to every player and reminds them of every piece of minutia regardng their game. I'm certain Jones was aware of the turf situation as he played there last night. I think he made a poor judgement on the ball. As for Roberts being aggressive. Who else on the team would you have being aggressive on the bases if not Roberts? It's the right thing to do to give Roberts a green light on the bases. He can't pick and choose situations when he he gives BRob his head and others where he reins him in. If BRob continues to make por judgements on the bases them you make a change, But it is too soon to do that now.

[bluedog]

You went totally past the point that I was making. My point is that all managers make moves during a game and if the game is won, very few times are they scrutinized. The two I mentioned turned out wrong for Cito. I do not think they were wrong. I think Cito was trying to give a poor bunter a chance to hit and then the second time was playing the percentage move. Had that been DT people would have been screaming, especially if they were in a loss.

DT IMO made the right move pitching to Hill, had a nice hit and run in the 9th to get the lead, got Cito to switch off Overbay against Baez, but we lost so he is the goat.

As for fundamentals, do you honestly believe we do not stress them. It comes down to execution. The players have to execute. The other issue is that we see the O's every day, so we do not see other teams mistakes. The Orioles coaches are not bad baseball guys, the problem is the players are not executing. If we had a pitching staff and were winning the every day mistakes, that occur with every team would not be as magnified.

Okay then you answer the question for me. The O's are obviously not a fundamentally sound team. They far and away have the most unearned runs in baseball this season. They are in the top 3 in the majors in running into outs on the bases.

Those are team totals. So are they irrelevant and we just ignore them? Or are they the players faults entirely and we simply have guys who are incapable of fundamental execution on defense and while running the bases?

Or is it possible that Trembley, for whatever reason, just doesn't do a good job of getting his players to play fundamentally sound baseball?

[Mike B]

Jones should know that in a ballpark like Toronto with a ground ball pitcher on the mound in Bergesen, that its tantamount to keep any ball that's hit to the outfield in front of him. Diving or over-running a play to attempt catch a ball that will be a single is not worth the risk of allowing the hitter to get extra bases - especially on turf with a ground ball pitcher on the mound.

The O's play in Toronto every year. They know the park. They know that its far easier to turn double plays on fast turf than anywhere else. Maybe you try to make that play with runners in scoring position in a tight game - but not against the leadoff hitter.

This is something that a "teaching" manager like Trembley should have stressed to his young outfielders (Jones & Montanez) before the game. Good managers do that. Now maybe he did say something and maybe Jones ignored it, but I doubt that's the case.

As for the out on the bases where Roberts tried to make it into 3rd on a ball hit to left field, I just don't understand why you'd take the risk there with Markakis on deck, two men on, against a young starting pitcher. Perhaps its Roberts being too aggressive, but this has happened many, many times this season. Trembley needs to get control of his players and make sure that they don't take unnecessary risks like that unless the situation warrants it. Being aggressive is fine and good, but taking foolish risks isn't.

In all honesty that is a silly complaint. The play I think you are talking about was a reaction play by Jones. That is a split second decision and he went for it. Nick made it worse by over running it and Wells got to third. How the Heck does a teaching manager prevent that play. Later in the game Lou made a sliding catch. I guess DT fixed that during the game.