I'm a little disappointed in AM

[ledzepp8]

No, but I fail to see how adding young yet proven star quality talent is a bad move at any time? For example, you are "banking" on the young talent developing to the maximum. Yet in reality this rarely happens. So, say the young pitching talent bombs and only one develops into a serviceable major league starter, what is plan B? Do you trade away some of your more established veteran players like say, Markakis or Jones for more prospects? I mean at some point if you live or die by prospects and die you have to realize that spending money on the talent is going to be a necessity not a choice or a luxury.

Really? This rarely happens? Uh...hello McFly...every established player in the league was young at one point.

Seriously bro you're getting owned left and right in this thread. Might be time to concede "dude".

[Orioles West]

As to the original post, the object is NOT to close the gap with the Bosox and Yanks, it is to build a team capable of long term success. Trying to outspend them did not work, and generally never will.

Nobody here is a bigger Matt Holiday fan than me, but he isn't the last piece to the winning puzzle. There wasn't a TOR FA starter out there in my estimation. All that and I think we will still be signing a couple more players to help the team.

Scouting as good or better than anyone else is the key to building a team that can compete with the big spenders.

I like our initial steps this winter, but I would agree we could use a couple more vets to help the younger players as they gain experience and confidence.

-Don

[Mad Mark]

Evidence of what? Common sense? Since you are apparently somehow lost on this topic I will give you an example of this. The Pittsburgh Steelers and their fans (hell the entire organization) expect them to win every year. They have 6 Lombardi Trophies to show that they are a 'winning" franchise or organization. Conversely, the Pirates are terrible. The same Pittsburgh fans expect them to be terrible and to lose as no doubt do their players and even coaches. So common sense tells you that the fans, players, FO, hell everyone involved in both of these teams has an entirely different outlook, set of expectations and goals that they feel the need to meet or live up to.Ergo: the Pirates not only have their own lousy performance to overcome and apparent lack of talent, they also have to reverse the expectations and mindset, outlook, etc. that they are LOSERS plain and simple! The Steelers don't have this problem whatsover.

I'll try to explain this s l o w l y...let's see if you can follow along.

The Pittsburgh Steelers play in the NFL, where revenues are shared--not entirely equally, but fairly close to it. They have been owned by the Rooney family--perhaps the most exemplary owners in pro sports--since 1933. The Rooneys have allowed their coaches and general managers to do their jobs and have generally kept out of the way. THEY'VE HAD THREE HEAD COACHES IN THE LAST 30 YEARS! THREE!

The Pittsburgh Pirates play in MLB, where revenues are--for the most part--not shared. During the period the Rooney family has owned the Steelers the Pirates have gone through owners like--well, not quite like Dan Snyder goes through coaches--but close. Those owners have gone through GMs and managers like--well, not quite like Dan Snyder goes through coaches--but close. As a low-revenue "small market" club, they have a tough time competing in a league with massive revenue disparities. Their recent ownership history augers against them.

So, what part of this has anything to do with a culture of anything? It has almost about everything to do with revenue distribution and quality of ownership.

Two very important things you should take a long, long time to study.

[Old#5fan]

I'll try to explain this s l o w l y...let's see if you can follow along.

The Pittsburgh Steelers play in the NFL, where revenues are shared--not entirely equally, but fairly close to it. They have been owned by the Rooney family--perhaps the most exemplary owners in pro sports--since 1933. The Rooneys have allowed their coaches and general managers to do their jobs and have generally kept out of the way. THEY'VE HAD THREE HEAD COACHES IN THE LAST 30 YEARS! THREE!

The Pittsburgh Pirates play in MLB, where revenues are--for the most part--not shared. During the period the Rooney family has owned the Steelers the Pirates have gone through owners like--well, not quite like Dan Snyder goes through coaches--but close. Those owners have gone through GMs and managers like--well, not quite like Dan Snyder goes through coaches--but close. As a low-revenue "small market" club, they have a tough time competing in a league with massive revenue disparities. Their recent ownership history augers against them.

So, what part of this has anything to do with a culture of anything? It has almost about everything to do with revenue distribution and quality of ownership.

Two very important things you should take a long, long time to study.

Maybe you should study baseball history that I recall as I lived through it when the Pirates were actually a hell of a baseball team, and indeed they did have a winning culture. In fact, they were the poster boys for it in the "We Are Family" saga. So don't give me your spin on this because that is all it is. Your view is not more correct than mine except in your imagination.

[catjuggler]

I think your Orange and Black bias is showing through (nothing wrong with that) but Cano is way better than Roberts. I saw a show on the MLB network where he was voted the top second baseman in the AL over the past five seasons and Roberts was like third. I think Markakis and Swisher and Matusz and Hughes are a wash.

If by saying the Nicks are a wash you mean: Markakis is three years younger, has a higher lifetime aver(.053), obp(.010), slg(.010) and ops(.020) who can also run, field and throw better then i agree with you.

[catjuggler]

I'll try to explain this s l o w l y...let's see if you can follow along.

The Pittsburgh Steelers play in the NFL, where revenues are shared--not entirely equally, but fairly close to it. They have been owned by the Rooney family--perhaps the most exemplary owners in pro sports--since 1933. The Rooneys have allowed their coaches and general managers to do their jobs and have generally kept out of the way. THEY'VE HAD THREE HEAD COACHES IN THE LAST 30 YEARS! THREE!

The Pittsburgh Pirates play in MLB, where revenues are--for the most part--not shared. During the period the Rooney family has owned the Steelers the Pirates have gone through owners like--well, not quite like Dan Snyder goes through coaches--but close. Those owners have gone through GMs and managers like--well, not quite like Dan Snyder goes through coaches--but close. As a low-revenue "small market" club, they have a tough time competing in a league with massive revenue disparities. Their recent ownership history augers against them.

So, what part of this has anything to do with a culture of anything? It has almost about everything to do with revenue distribution and quality of ownership.

Two very important things you should take a long, long time to study.

it's actually 3 coaches in 40 years.

[Hank Scorpio]

Kansas City comes to mind as does the Pirates. The Orioles are now in that mold, and Detroit was like that for years until they finally did what AM needs to do with the Orioles and that is supplement these youngters with some proven major league stars.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/chi-10-winter-meetings-bits-dec10,0,2985054.story

So how could Tigers GM Dave Dombrowski, who called Granderson a "quality human being," trade him?

"I know he's well loved, and it's deserved," Dombrowski said.

"I told him. He understood. We are making some adjustments and it's a business decision."

Read: I've signed peaking players to too many stupid contracts over the last 4-5 years and I need to cut some payroll.

[Hank Scorpio]

Well, the Pirates made some of the most stupid trades imaginable becoming a farm team for the Red Sox and others. The Royals have some great young talent as well. Grieneke, and Butler for example. I think they have a better core than the Orioles do right now.

:laughlol:

You're just messing with us, right?

[Old#5fan]

Really? This rarely happens? Uh...hello McFly...every established player in the league was young at one point.

Seriously bro you're getting owned left and right in this thread. Might be time to concede "dude".

And uh, guess what uh, "dude" every young player doesn't make it either now do they? In fact, I bet if you thought a bit more about it (don't give yourself a headache though, "dude") you might realize that the percentage of failure at the major league level is uh, fairly high right "dude?":laughlol:

[Hank Scorpio]

And uh, guess what uh, "dude" every young player doesn't make it either now do they? In fact, I bet if you thought a bit more about it (don't give yourself a headache though, "dude") you might realize that the percentage of failure at the major league level is uh, fairly high right "dude?":laughlol:

Compiling young, cheap talent is the Orioles only hope for sustained competitiveness in the AL East.

Sorry, dude.

[Roll Tide]

Compiling young, cheap talent is the Orioles only hope for sustained competitiveness in the AL East.

Sorry, dude.

Sure ... But it doesnt preclude them from adding premium talent.

[osfan83]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/chi-10-winter-meetings-bits-dec10,0,2985054.story

Read: I've signed peaking players to too many stupid contracts over the last 4-5 years and I need to cut some payroll.

Some of those stupid contracts gave them a legit shot at a title.

[Hank Scorpio]

Some of those stupid contracts gave them a legit shot at a title.

Yup, in the AL Central. The Orioles are dealing with a different reality, unfortunately for them (and us.)

And now Detroit has 3-4 untradeable, unproductive, undesireable players clogging up their roster and they had to trade the face of their franchise because of it.

No thanks.

[Moose Milligan]

Yup, in the AL Central. The Orioles are dealing with a different reality, unfortunately for them (and us.)

And now Detroit has 3-4 untradeable, unproductive, undesireable players clogging up their roster and they had to trade the face of their franchise because of it.

No thanks.

You'd think this very real example would have set in with certain people by now.

Oh well.

[osfan83]

Yup, in the AL Central. The Orioles are dealing with a different reality, unfortunately for them (and us.)

And now Detroit has 3-4 untradeable, unproductive, undesireable players clogging up their roster and they had to trade the face of their franchise because of it.

No thanks.

If you told me right now the O's would get two playoff years to take a shot at a title, but the cost would be 4 sub .500 years following because of bad contracts, I would sign up for that in a minute!