More Biogenesis-Related Suspensions Likely To Occur

[Phantom]

A lot of the discussion here is of anabolic steroid abuse, but what about HGH? If I were looking for a PED to take, HGH would certainly be my first stop.

[ledzepp8]

Perhaps there's no reason for peds to be illegal. But simply legalizing them isn't going to stop abuse. The players are already getting them from doctors.

[Barnaby Graves]

Not saying that you are necessarily in favor of, or arguing for, this. But personally, the idea of professional sports leagues where the expectation is that you take performance enhancing drugs is not one that I can imagine ever being fond of.

To me, I think we already expect them to do plenty of things injurious to their health. It's inherit to being an athlete. Granted, working out is the best thing you can do for yourself, but that's not what sports are about. Fans want pitchers to push themselves and to risk injury (and pitching itself is already unhealthy), to be unafraid of playing baseball like it's a contact sport. Some people like pitchers who throw at batters a lot. PEDs are a strange line in the sand to me. If PEDs reduced injuries, would we be OK with them?

Again, it's one thing in baseball where, perhaps, the biggest harm done is we see outrageous numbers being put up. Can you imagine it in a sport like football? I mean, I'm already completely turned off by the game (for various reasons, for over a decade).

But again, this shows it's not about health. Football has always and will always be a violent sport that does a ton of permanent damage to people, before the outbreak of PED use and after. If the concern was health we'd ban football and not PEDs. Same with alcohol and fatty foods. But people like football and they like alcohol and fatty foods.

I think all of the righteousness about children, athlete's health, and the purity of sports is only expressed when it's convenient. I haven't heard a good reason Bonds shouldn't be in the Hall and Mantle should.

[Wish]

I don't see a good point to making it legal. People who want to gain muscle should just go to the gym and work out 5 days a week. That would be much healthier for them.

Um you have to lift weights to put on muscle with or without steroids. You don't just get jacked by taking them.

[Redskins Rick]

Um you have to lift weights to put on muscle with or without steroids. You don't just get jacked by taking them.

Steroids won't make you jack, but normally, you get fat, it raises your appetite and the need for food.

[Barnaby Graves]

Um you have to lift weights to put on muscle with or without steroids. You don't just get jacked by taking them.

Yeah they aren't a shortcut at all. Basically they allow you to work out harder, if anything.

I have known people who do them and they were beating the piss out of themselves in the gym and eating way, way more food than I ever want to eat.

[SteveO]

As long as guys have been playing baseball they have been trying to find a way to get a leg up on the next guy. Amphetamine use was rampant in the post WW2 players up until the cocaine became fashionable in the 80's. One of the greatest players of all time, Willie Mays, had a liquid form of an amphetamine in his locker during his days with New York's most beloved team, the New York Mets. Teammate John Milner said that amphetamines were so pervasive during his era that when he went into the clubhouse, there were "greenies" waiting for him in his locker. Hank Aaron himself has acknowledged having used it at least once. Its simple folks, most top notch athletes will do just about anything they think they can get away with to stay on top.

This romantic notion and indignant attitude about steroid/HGH use as if it is the only time or era in baseball history that is tainted is just laughable. Beyond amphetamines, we had an entire era of baseball in which African Americans were not allowed to participate. I have no problem exposing cheaters, they should be, but lets be realistic and understand that cheating and supplement use is a proud baseball tradition

[TonySoprano]

Two federal law enforcement sources told "Outside the Lines" Tuesday that a number of previously undisclosed players had been identified through the DEA's "Operation Strikeout," and that they expected those names to be made public through the discovery process of the case. MLB officials, however, are seeking the release of those names as soon as possible in order to begin disciplinary proceedings against the players.

DEA officials said this week that Tuesday's arrests were only the first phase of their investigation, and that others are expected to follow.

One source said five players have been identified during the investigation, although it is not clear whether all five are on major league rosters. Two law enforcement sources said the evidence that the players received banned substances was compelling and that they expect the players will be suspended by MLB.

According to sources familiar with the investigation, the players identified in "Operation Strikeout" were not connected to Anthony Bosch or the Biogenesis clinic he founded, but to other defendants in the case, including Yuri Sucart, the cousin of Alex Rodriguez.

source - ESPN

[atomic]

Um you have to lift weights to put on muscle with or without steroids. You don't just get jacked by taking them.

That isn't what Canseco stated. He said he would make fun of the guys lifting weights in the gym.

[Lester Freamon]

Plenty of outrageous numbers were put up in the deadball era. Did Bonds do anything more outrageous then Cy Young or Old Hoss?

I'm not arguing against making PEDs legal because they have the potential to help players put up outrageous numbers. Although, I'd much prefer the sport to be a level playing field. That being said, I'm also not naive enough, at least I don't think I am, to not realize that the game has never truly had a level playing field, in any era.

I'm simply against the legalization of it, in sports, because I think it would be a poor precedent. Not just for sports leagues but for our sports loving society in general.

Which leads me to my next point below....

To me, I think we already expect them to do plenty of things injurious to their health. It's inherit to being an athlete. Granted, working out is the best thing you can do for yourself, but that's not what sports are about. Fans want pitchers to push themselves and to risk injury (and pitching itself is already unhealthy), to be unafraid of playing baseball like it's a contact sport. Some people like pitchers who throw at batters a lot. PEDs are a strange line in the sand to me. If PEDs reduced injuries, would we be OK with them?

But again, this shows it's not about health. Football has always and will always be a violent sport that does a ton of permanent damage to people, before the outbreak of PED use and after. If the concern was health we'd ban football and not PEDs. Same with alcohol and fatty foods. But people like football and they like alcohol and fatty foods.

I think all of the righteousness about children, athlete's health, and the purity of sports is only expressed when it's convenient. I haven't heard a good reason Bonds shouldn't be in the Hall and Mantle should.

...I know I harp on football a lot and I apologize to all of you who are tired of reading my crap. But PED's have, essentially, been legal in football all along as witnessed through the attitude of the league, the sports media, and the fans. So we already have a good idea of what it actually looks like to have a sports league with legal PED use. I personally don't like the looks of it.

[Barnaby Graves]

...I know I harp on football a lot and I apologize to all of you who are tired of reading my crap. But PED's have, essentially, been legal in football all along as witnessed through the attitude of the league, the sports media, and the fans. So we already have a good idea of what it actually looks like to have a sports league with legal PED use. I personally don't like the looks of it.

But football is ugly because it's football, not because of PEDs. I don't think it's significantly uglier. Was Dick Butkus on PEDs when he was running amok, mugging people? Serious question cause I don't know if he was or wasn't.

[MrOrange82]

If baseball, or any pastime, doesn't constantly strive to be "better" than it has been in the past, then what's the point?

I don't particularly care if arguments can be made that dead ball era players took advantage of cheats unique to that era, or if Babe Ruth might've enjoyed less success had he played in an integrated league. I don't care about greenies/amphetamines. I do, however, care about not allowing the modern bar to be held down by the litany of ---- ups that checkers the game's past.

Most players who've cheated (and got caught) have done so knowingly. It doesn't make them any more honorable or sympathetic to say that maybe, just maybe, PEDs should now be legalized. And going forward, I find it nothing short of offensive to think that performance enhancing drugs should become almost mandatory for reaching and excelling at the highest levels of professional sports.

The degree to which athletic success has been incentivized by our society is bad enough. Tacking pharmaceuticals onto the ladder would be intolerable.

[joedogg9999]

I love how a significant portion of them have no problem at all with the decades of illegal amphetamine use.

Forgive me if im missing something here or misinterpreting any sarcasm, but are you suggesting that amphetamines provide even remotely similar levels of athletic performance enhancement as amabolic steroids or hgh?

Heres an anology. Lets say a man is tasked to kill a lion with his barehands. One guy brings a butterknife to the fight (an amphetamine in the case of baseball) and the other guy brings either a .45 handgun (synthetic testosterone only cycle) , a ak-47 (testosterone+trenethanate cycle) , or a rocket launcher (a testosterone based stack with HGH, such as barry bonds) to the fight.

[Wish]

That isn't what Canseco stated. He said he would make fun of the guys lifting weights in the gym.

Where?

It's not possible to induce muscle hypertrophy without tearing up your muscles doing some type of resistance training.

Maybe he was laughing at them because they weren't using and he knew with steroids he could put on more lean muscle than them.

[atomic]

As long as guys have been playing baseball they have been trying to find a way to get a leg up on the next guy. Amphetamine use was rampant in the post WW2 players up until the cocaine became fashionable in the 80's. One of the greatest players of all time, Willie Mays, had a liquid form of an amphetamine in his locker during his days with New York's most beloved team, the New York Mets. Teammate John Milner said that amphetamines were so pervasive during his era that when he went into the clubhouse, there were "greenies" waiting for him in his locker. Hank Aaron himself has acknowledged having used it at least once. Its simple folks, most top notch athletes will do just about anything they think they can get away with to stay on top.

This romantic notion and indignant attitude about steroid/HGH use as if it is the only time or era in baseball history that is tainted is just laughable. Beyond amphetamines, we had an entire era of baseball in which African Americans were not allowed to participate. I have no problem exposing cheaters, they should be, but lets be realistic and understand that cheating and supplement use is a proud baseball tradition

Who has that attitude. I am sure people cheated in all sorts of ways. But complaining about cheating in a minor way to somehow justify cheating in a major way makes no sense.