2015 Nelson Cruz tracker thread

[MemorialStadKid]

Let's get Hamilton.

MSK

[DrungoHazewood]

Alex Rodriguez is 39 and missed all of last year and is still playing decent. How do you know Cruz won't be good in 4 years?

How bad he "could" be in four years is not a good excuse as to why he's not here this year.

Oh goodness. You actually just used Alex Rodriguez as an example of why the O's should throw caution and logic out the door and just sign old guys to big contracts. The same guy who'll be paid $20M+ a year for the next three years and hasn't been worth 3 wins in a season since 2011.

[DrungoHazewood]

We should trade for ARod.

It would be fun to watch someone with Markakis' production making $21M a year.

[ledzepp8]

What are you TALKING ABOUT?!?!?!!?!?

More often than not, one of the most prominent anti-signing-free-agent arguments (besides the obligatory "we're a small market" or using some calculus formula to devalue the signing) is that we need to save the money for arbitration and/or resigning potential free agents currently on the squad.

The logic goes, we shouldn't spend the money now on a known value because we'll need the money to resign players we currently have at the end of their deals.

Are we really going to open the books on Davis and Wieters? Would either be better than having kept Cruz?

MSK

This is your issue. You can't address people's actual arguments, so you make up your own. There are no "anti-signing-free-agent arguments" being made on this board. No one is against signing free agents. People might remind you to look at the financial make up of this ballclub. They might argue that the FAs you want to sign won't be worth the money it would take to sign them. But there aren't any people on this board to that are "anti-signing-free-agents". That's just ridiculous.

Also it's not about the Orioles saving money. It's about a budget that the O's FO has to stick to. Just because you think that the Orioles can spend whatever kind of money you want them to spend doesn't make it so, no matter how much you stick your head in the sand about it. So yes, if the Orioles budget is 115-120 million per year payroll, allotting, conservatively, 25 million per year to Nelson Cruz and Andrew Miller, takes away resources that the team might want to use to resign other players on the team (or other FAs).

But none of this matters because you'll just stick your fingers in your ears and yell "I can't hear you!".

[MemorialStadKid]

This is your issue. You can't address people's actual arguments, so you make up your own. There are no "anti-signing-free-agent arguments" being made on this board. No one is against signing free agents. People might remind you to look at the financial make up of this ballclub. They might argue that the FAs you want to sign won't be worth the money it would take to sign them. But there aren't any people on this board to that are "anti-signing-free-agents". That's just ridiculous.

Also it's not about the Orioles saving money. It's about a budget that the O's FO has to stick to. Just because you think that the Orioles can spend whatever kind of money you want them to spend doesn't make it so, no matter how much you stick your head in the sand about it. So yes, if the Orioles budget is 115-120 million per year payroll, allotting, conservatively, 25 million per year to Nelson Cruz and Andrew Miller, takes away resources that the team might want to use to resign other players on the team (or other FAs).

But none of this matters because you'll just stick your fingers in your ears and yell "I can't hear you!".

I'm not making up arguments.

Do you not remember this phrase whenever a big free agent is available: "We shouldn't sign him and tie up the team's resources which will hamper their growth in the future."

That has been repeated endlessly and often is used as a justification for not spending money, as if the Orioles are dirt poor.

In any case, it's hilarious to see how these threads always end up the same way: 1) the Orioles have a make-believe budget ceiling, 2) we ignore the fact that said free agent is doing great elsewhere, 3) "You think the Orioles can spend anything they want."

I actually know the Orioles have a budget, I just think we could spend more on international signings and find a stronger pitching philosophy within the farm system. But in the meantime, when a great player is available and within reason, we should sign the guy.

Cruz wasn't asking for $150 million. He was asking for 4/$40. IS that outside of the realm of possibility?

MSK

[Crazysilver03]

I'm not making up arguments.

Do you not remember this phrase whenever a big free agent is available: "We shouldn't sign him and tie up the team's resources which will hamper their growth in the future."

That has been repeated endlessly and often is used as a justification for not spending money, as if the Orioles are dirt poor.

In any case, it's hilarious to see how these threads always end up the same way: 1) the Orioles have a make-believe budget ceiling, 2) we ignore the fact that said free agent is doing great elsewhere, 3) "You think the Orioles can spend anything they want."

I actually know the Orioles have a budget, I just think we could spend more on international signings and find a stronger pitching philosophy within the farm system. But in the meantime, when a great player is available and within reason, we should sign the guy.

Cruz wasn't asking for $150 million. He was asking for 4/$40. IS that outside of the realm of possibility?

MSK

Was he asking for 4/40? Where did you read this? I would doubt he was asking for that if he signed for what he did.

[badmamajama]

Short and simple: If the O's don't make the playoffs this year, it won't be because Cruz wasn't brought back.

[weams]

I'm not making up arguments.

Do you not remember this phrase whenever a big free agent is available: "We shouldn't sign him and tie up the team's resources which will hamper their growth in the future."

Cruz wasn't asking for $150 million. He was asking for 4/$40. IS that outside of the realm of possibility?

MSK

Here I was defending your right to spout your rhetoric. You are dishonest. Cruz wanted 4/65 and settled for 4/58 plus bonuses.

[MemorialStadKid]

Here I was defending your right to spout your rhetoric. You are dishonest. Cruz wanted 4/65 and settled for 4/58 plus bonuses.

I made a mistake, I thought he wanted 4/40.

[CA-ORIOLE]

Here I was defending your right to spout your rhetoric. You are dishonest. Cruz wanted 4/65 and settled for 4/58 plus bonuses.

Of course he's dishonest. Whenever he provides a fact or logic he's almost always wrong and quickly called out. That's why he seldom does it. It was a rare misstep. He'll be careful about providing any specifics for awhile and stay with the rhetoric.

[Crazysilver03]

I made a mistake, I thought he wanted 4/40.

What did you think his current contract was? If he wanted 4/40 no one would sign him for 4/56.

[MemorialStadKid]

Of course he's dishonest. Whenever he provides a fact or logic he's almost always wrong and quickly called out. That's why he seldom does it. It was a rare misstep. He'll be careful about providing any specifics for awhile and stay with the rhetoric.

I MADE A MISTAKE.

I keep forgetting, the flapjack crew is always there with a microscope, but the bottom line is that Cruz could have been had without breaking the bank.

Of course, lets continue to deflect the discussion to how much of a "troll" I am.

MSK

[Crazysilver03]

I MADE A MISTAKE.

I keep forgetting, the flapjack crew is always there with a microscope, but the bottom line is that Cruz could have been had without breaking the bank.

Of course, lets continue to deflect the discussion to how much of a "troll" I am.

MSK

So you are upset that you made a mistake and got called out on it. You're not special.

[Frobby]

I made a mistake, I thought he wanted 4/40.

I hope you'd concede that declining to sign Cruz for 4/$58 mm is a lot different from declining to sign him for 4/$40 mm. I certainly would have supported a 4/$40 mm signing.

[MemorialStadKid]

So you are upset that you made a mistake and got called out on it. You're not special.

I know. I don't believe I'm special.

"Getting called" on things seems to be a bizarre recreational activity on the OH. Folks wait in the wings to refute any and everything a person says who falls outside of the group-think.

There's no discussion, only constant contrary banter fueled by snark and bitterness. It's the strangest thing I've ever seen. All this animosity is based upon one group of people who get angry about the prospect of the Orioles spending money.

So, so weird.

MSK