Taking a Flyer on Jason Botts?

[Sports Guy]

Which incompetent player would he replace in the line up?

If you don't think we can find time with him while sitting Huff, Mora, Millar, et al once a week, I don't know what to tell you.

And even if he is a liability defensively, you still maybe put him out there.

The A's put Jack Cust in LF the other day...I guarantee you Botts isn't worse in the OF than Cust is yet, miraclously, Cust caught the ball and(gasp!), the A's won the game!

So, Payton doesn't always have to be the guy who plays in LF for Scott on occasion.

[ledzepp8]

This is a 300 post thread and not person has posted any kind of legit reason why we shouldn't give this guy a chance.

Please, I don't recall anyone in this thread saying they would be against giving him a chance. The argument was about giving him a (an unearned) starting spot.

[Sports Guy]

And I wouldn't have had a problem with doing just that. 2-3 games per week wouldn't have bothered me a bit. I just didn't want him being handed a starting job in front of guys who are currently better players than him when he is a huge longshot AND 27 years old.

Well, if he hit at all and Millar continued to suck, then he should eventually get more pt than Millar. Millar is a slow starter and while you do have to worry about him because of his age, he does deserve the chance to snap out of it.

However, in the mean time, Botts could have played against all lefties and the occasional righty....Plus, he could be a pinch hitter.

Our bench is awful now..No reason not to have a guy like this on the bench and seeing what he can do.

[Sports Guy]

Agree, no problem with him being a sub for any of those guys.

BTW, Cust played left again today. We never hit a ball near him all day. I wanted to see him track the ball and move, but it didn't happen.

He actually made a decent running grab the other day.

My real point is that even if a guy is a liability, many games he will be fine.

As you said, we didn't even hit the ball to him...That is going to happen and a lot of balls that are hit could be caught by anyone on this website. So, there is only so much to worry about.

He could play the OF on days someone like DCab pitches, a GB pitcher.

[clapdiddy]

Agree, no problem with him being a sub for any of those guys.

BTW, Cust played left again today. We never hit a ball near him all day. I wanted to see him track the ball and move, but it didn't happen.

I saw a few balls hit to him last night, and he didn't look horrible. He strikes me as a guy who doesn't have a lot of range, but he'll catch what he can reach.

[Sports Guy]

I saw a few balls hit to him last night, and he didn't look horrible. He strikes me as a guy who doesn't have a lot of range, but he'll catch what he can reach.

Right and I bet Botts would be the same way.

[Pickles]

Well, I don't know if you guys missed the first inning or something but the first batter of the game- Torres- hit one that fell in specifically because of the defensive ineptness of Jack Cust.

By the by, Sports Guy, I think its utterly hilarious that anybody whom you haven't seen play you just assume would be adequate in the field. This isn't just with Botts, but I've seen you make the same claim about a number of guys. Earlier it was Cintron, now it's Botts, the list goes one. The guys are considered poor fielders for a reason.

[Sports Guy]

Well, I don't know if you guys missed the first inning or something but the first batter of the game- Torres- hit one that fell in specifically because of the defensive ineptness of Jack Cust.

By the by, Sports Guy, I think its utterly hilarious that anybody whom you haven't seen play you just assume would be adequate in the field. This isn't just with Botts, but I've seen you make the same claim about a number of guys. Earlier it was Cintron, now it's Botts, the list goes one. The guys are considered poor fielders for a reason.

I never said Cintron was a good fielder.

He has always had a rep as a good fielder but it seems as if the arm injury is going to be too much for him to overcome.

And I stand by what I said about Botts...I am suire he isn't good out there and will kill you from time to time but I guarantee you he will catch what is near him and he can get to. He is a professional baseball player who has OF experience..He is one of the best baseball players in the entire world, so yes, I think he can catch the ball. Thinking otherwise is absurd.

[Pickles]

I'm not sure of that. That ball was a low soft liner. It would have taken a helluva left fielder to catch that ball. I don't think it is an out if Payton is the left fielder. I do agree that Cust didn't even get close to catching it. He got no jump. I forgot about this play until you mentioned it. So much happened later in the game.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. I didn't think it was a liner but a humpback. And I do think that Payton would have stuck it in his as-. This is why evaluating defense on a fine level is so hard to do. It's easy to say a guy is good or not so good or bad, but it's damn near impossible to extrapolate that into what exactly it costs you.

I had the same reaction watching the infamous LH non-doubleplay today. I didn't think he played it poorly but I knew as soon as Thorne and the other idiot started bit--ing about it there would be seven threads here on it. To me, it wasn't like he let the ball bounce an extra time or anything, he simply took a half step back as he fielded it. Not ideal but hardly the offense some seem to want to make it out to be.

[Pickles]

I never said Cintron was a good fielder.

He has always had a rep as a good fielder but it seems as if the arm injury is going to be too much for him to overcome.

You said he'd be an adequate defensive shortstop. Now we get reports this isn't the case and you change your tune.

And I stand by what I said about Botts...I am suire he isn't good out there and will kill you from time to time but I guarantee you he will catch what is near him and he can get to. He is a professional baseball player who has OF experience..He is one of the best baseball players in the entire world, so yes, I think he can catch the ball. Thinking otherwise is absurd.

He'll catch most of what he gets to but that isn't really the case and you know it. He's going to get to far less balls than just about anybody. Not to mention the balls that get by him in the gap for extra bases and his weak arm. Sure he can catch the ball; so can my six year old nephew. That doesn't make him a legitimate major league outfielder. He's as bad as Cust in LF. And I still stand by what I said earlier about him not being able to hit a good fastball.

But my real question is this: Is every time some scrub who put up an ops over 800 in the minor leagues- never mind anything like career trajectory or age or enviroment or defensive position- gets released from their club are we going to hear from you how the O's are "beyond stupid" and "indefensible" for not picking him up?

[Sports Guy]

You said he'd be an adequate defensive shortstop. Now we get reports this isn't the case and you change your tune.

I didn't know about the arm issues...And btw, the Orioles are apparently contemplating using him at SS anyway...So, if they do, i expect you to cry about that.

He'll catch most of what he gets to but that isn't really the case and you know it. He's going to get to far less balls than just about anybody. Not to mention the balls that get by him in the gap for extra bases and his weak arm. Sure he can catch the ball; so can my six year old nephew. That doesn't make him a legitimate major league outfielder. He's as bad as Cust in LF. And I still stand by what I said earlier about him not being able to hit a good fastball.

Glad to hear it.

But my real question is this: Is every time some scrub who put up an ops over 800 in the minor leagues- never mind anything like career trajectory or age or enviroment or defensive position- gets released from their club are we going to hear from you how the O's are "beyond stupid" and "indefensible" for not picking him up?[

800? No.

Close to 900? Yes

And I will continue to complain about it until this team has better options...Right now, they don't.

[Pickles]

Man, I don't know. I was at the game and I just don't agree. I agree it was a humpback (whatever that is ). I just think it would have been a tough catch.

On the LH/Frank Thomas ball, it was a bad play IMO. You should have seen the looks that Roberts, Mora, and Trembley were giving him. The ball was really slowly hit. LH was thinking about how slow Thomas was (which is true, he would have still been out at first), but he almost killed Roberts by playing it like he did. Roberts had zero chance. I'm seriously surprised he didn't get hurt. IMO, LH basically was afraid to move toward the ball and get it on the previous hop. It wasn't an easy decision to charge it rather than wait, but it is the play I would want our SS to make in that situation. He played it safe rather than going for the win.

Hell, Mora has no right to give anybody a look in that situation considering it was his man that was crossing the plate.

Like I said, I don't think he played it as well as possible but the sh-- Thorne was talking, and some of the posters here, is a little over the top imo. If you want to burn him over being picked off: Have at it. If you want to complain about the overall lack of play for the year: Have at it.

But I still don't think we have a better in house soloution at short and any change there is negligble.

[BaltimoreTerp]

So, all 30 teams passed on him. There are lots of teams with offense issues. Maybe all the scouts know something that JTrea and SG don't?

The guy can't get around on a fastball. He isn't the solution. I actually wish we had picked him up. It would have been quite clear after just a few games that he wasn't the answer.

Then you dump him and move on to the next guy? Is that such a hard concept when we have no one in his way?

Oh wait, I forgot he's the vinegar to the baking soda of our clubhouse.

[Pickles]

I didn't know about the arm issues...And btw, the Orioles are apparently contemplating using him at SS anyway...So, if they do, i expect you to cry about that.

Don't you know there is no crying in baseball? Really, if a change is made I'm not going to get too worked up about it because, imo, it doesn't really matter. None of them are very good. I just don't understand why people are acting like any of this matters. Cintron or Bynum over Hernandez isn't going to make a lick of difference.

Glad to hear it.

Hey it isn't just me. We've had three people on this thread who've seen him play and they've all said the same thing: He can't hit a good fastball. You can ignore that if you want but I think it's funny that three independent sources are all reporting the same thing. BTW, do you think it doesn't matter?

800? No.

Close to 900? Yes

And I will continue to complain about it until this team has better options...Right now, they don't.

Shouldn't you save your complaining for when the team actually has better options and fails to utilize them? To me, that would be worth complaining about.

[LookitsPuck]

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. I didn't think it was a liner but a humpback. And I do think that Payton would have stuck it in his as-. This is why evaluating defense on a fine level is so hard to do. It's easy to say a guy is good or not so good or bad, but it's damn near impossible to extrapolate that into what exactly it costs you.

I had the same reaction watching the infamous LH non-doubleplay today. I didn't think he played it poorly but I knew as soon as Thorne and the other idiot started bit--ing about it there would be seven threads here on it. To me, it wasn't like he let the ball bounce an extra time or anything, he simply took a half step back as he fielded it. Not ideal but hardly the offense some seem to want to make it out to be.

The problem with LH is he doesn't charge balls. It wasn't just this game, it has happened countless times this year.