The Orioles would build a better team if they sold

[Stotle]

I actually meant to emoji the stock sentence to show I was joking and just completely forgot. I didn't mean that seriously, but I get that tone is hard which is the reason for the emojis. My sincere apologies. You're a very smart guy.

Maybe I'm just remembering wrong. Maybe you were all over Bogaerts and JBJ not Bogaerts and Betts. My memory certainly isn't what it used to be. If so, my sincere apologies again.

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No apology necessary.

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[weams]

Well sure, in the offseason. I made an impassioned plea a year ago that we either had to convert Britton to starting or trade him in the offseason so he and I were in the same corner. It is a completely different thing to trade the stopper in the middle of the race while in first place. It sends a terrible message to the rest of the team.

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No team that is really competing would every do something like that and live to talk about it. Stotle knows this as well. It is a good chess match exercise though.

[Stotle]

Well sure, in the offseason. I made an impassioned plea a year ago that we either had to convert Britton to starting or trade him in the offseason so he and I were in the same corner. It is a completely different thing to trade the stopper in the middle of the race while in first place. It sends a terrible message to the rest of the team.

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I acknowledged this responding to Drungo/Frobby. Was purely an academic question, not a critique of Baltimore FO. I think Weams is referencing a suggestion of mine from two offseasons ago, after big Davis season.

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[GoldGlove21]

So, am I right to say that essentially your point is this:

Congrats to the current braintrust for being way better than the prior several braintrusts because you have created 5 good years after 14 straight bad ones, but I am not happy because I think you did a B job (good now but sacrifice some of the future) and I will only be happy with an A job (good now and good in the future)?

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Sort of... I am saying that most teams have a payroll cap and for that reason they have windows of opportunity. My willingness to throw caution to the wind is tied to those windows. If you want to go all in for a 3+ year run then do it and get difference makers. If you are at the we ND of a window then maybe eye the next run and trade away walk guys or guys that can be replaced in house to bolster the next window. My issue is that the O's will likely miss a window and not have an easy time creating the next one. Nobody wants to talk about it, but dealing/extending Machado is the elephant in the room. As far as getting a team close only to be let go goes. Didn't Duque the and Showalter fall victims to this fate in the past?

[Roll Tide]

Sort of... I am saying that most teams have a payroll cap and for that reason they have windows of opportunity. My willingness to throw caution to the wind is tied to those windows. If you want to go all in for a 3+ year run then do it and get difference makers. If you are at the we ND of a window then maybe eye the next run and trade away walk guys or guys that can be replaced in house to bolster the next window. My issue is that the O's will likely miss a window and not have an easy time creating the next one. Nobody wants to talk about it, but dealing/extending Machado is the elephant in the room. As far as getting a team close only to be let go goes. Didn't Duque the and Showalter fall victims to this fate in the past?

I did not bother to read the whole thread. I'm just asking.... Has a GM ever sold at the deadline with his team either in first, tied for first, or a game out?

I think the criticism would be huge if DD would have taken that approach.

This team has holes....Tillmans injury certainly has not helped. Too heavily reliant on the long ball is nothing new. Too many players that can't work a count.

I understand the frustration as I am as well. But there was just no way it made any sense to sell. Even now two games out and in a wild card slot it still does not make sense to sell.

[Aristotelian]

Sort of... I am saying that most teams have a payroll cap and for that reason they have windows of opportunity. My willingness to throw caution to the wind is tied to those windows. If you want to go all in for a 3+ year run then do it and get difference makers. If you are at the we ND of a window then maybe eye the next run and trade away walk guys or guys that can be replaced in house to bolster the next window. My issue is that the O's will likely miss a window and not have an easy time creating the next one. Nobody wants to talk about it, but dealing/extending Machado is the elephant in the room. As far as getting a team close only to be let go goes. Didn't Duque the and Showalter fall victims to this fate in the past?

I get the need to rebuild eventually, but we are competing right now, even with the team struggling we are still within reach. Our biggest trade chips - Britton and Manny - still have multiple years left under Orioles control, and will get massive return even in rental deals of their walk years. I just don't get the urgency to rebuild right now when the team has a chance (albeit a small chance that seems to be growing smaller by the day). It is late August and the team is still competing. Let's enjoy this, hold on for the WC and see what happens.

[Aristotelian]

Houston did it this year. And I seriously doubt that was the first such event. They were 2 or 3 games out and they were hot leading into the break. They knew they weren't going to extend one of their starters and made a calculated move towards acquiring value for a commodity that had a small shelf life which potentially improved their talent pool for the future. And I predict that you will see more of this in the future. SP's salaries are pricing lower-revenue teams out of contention and they'll have to adapt to stay competitive which will lead to selling even while in contention.

Trading Feldman to the Blue Jays is a lot different than rebuilding/retooling. Folks here are talking about trading Manny or Britton. Trading a #4/#5 SP in his walk year is nowhere near equivalent, especially when you have guys in your organization like Musgrove who are upgrades (which the Orioles do not) that actually improve your ability to compete this year.

[atomic]

Houston did it this year. And I seriously doubt that was the first such event. They were 2 or 3 games out and they were hot leading into the break. They knew they weren't going to extend one of their starters and made a calculated move towards acquiring value for a commodity that had a small shelf life which potentially improved their talent pool for the future. And I predict that you will see more of this in the future. SP's salaries are pricing lower-revenue teams out of contention and they'll have to adapt to stay competitive which will lead to selling even while in contention.

Who did they trade? Looks like they traded prospects for Scott Kasmir at the break last season.

[kakesmvp]

I know we have looked rough recently...but I firmly believe in the the team is never as good as it looks during a hot streak and never as bad during the bad times.

This team is the very definition of streaky. We still have talent on this team. We have talent that can get hot and keep us in this thing (we are technically still a Wild Card as of now)

As easy as it is to watch them and think it's over, one week in baseball can make us feel good again.

Guys, step back from the ledge and just enjoy your favorite team playing meaningful games! Over the next month or so, we will get to learn a lot about our team. If anyone can rally a team, it's Buck!

Baseball is such a long roller coaster season...enjoy the ride while we are on it and hope like hell you don't have to puke when it's over! [emoji108]

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[GoldGlove21]

I did not bother to read the whole thread. I'm just asking.... Has a GM ever sold at the deadline with his team either in first, tied for first, or a game out?

I think the criticism would be huge if DD would have taken that approach.

This team has holes....Tillmans injury certainly has not helped. Too heavily reliant on the long ball is nothing new. Too many players that can't work a count.

I understand the frustration as I am as well. But there was just no way it made any sense to sell. Even now two games out and in a wild card slot it still does not make sense to sell.

I thought Billy Beane did it one year.

[GoldGlove21]

I didn't see it suggested that our best players be traded. You're twisting this into a joke for yourself while distracting from the point. Bad post IMO.

For the record, I would have traded Britton. Just not a fan of closers making $15M a year and Britton can easily get that. Plus he would have got a return of at least what Chapman/Miller got for the Yankees.

[Aristotelian]

For the record, I would have traded Britton. Just not a fan of closers making $15M a year and Britton can easily get that. Plus he would have got a return of at least what Chapman/Miller got for the Yankees.

He will still get a huge return this offseason, next offseason, or even trade deadline 2018. If you want maximum return on investment, wait til the trade deadline and tell the contenders he will go to the first team that offers their top prospect. You get 5 and a half years of Britton and still get the same return.

[GoldGlove21]

He will still get a huge return this offseason, next offseason, or even trade deadline 2018. If you want maximum return on investment, wait til the trade deadline and tell the contenders he will go to the first team that offers their top prospect. You get 5 and a half years of Britton and still get the same return.

You will not get more for him the earlier that a team gets control of him. The top prospect depends on what the team's top prospect is. I would want a top 25 type prospect and a top 50-75 prospect and another high upside prospect or two in lower levels.

[Roll Tide]

I thought Billy Beane did it one year.

Did he just talk the owner in paying a player 27 million per the prior off season?

The O's window is now.....trading would've been lunacy.

[Aristotelian]

You will not get more for him the earlier that a team gets control of him. The top prospect depends on what the team's top prospect is. I would want a top 25 type prospect and a top 50-75 prospect and another high upside prospect or two in lower levels.

That is pretty close to what they Yanks got for only two months of Chapman. I could buy into moving Britton at the deadline next year if the O's are out of it. He would still have one year-plus under team control and tremendous value to a trade partner, plus less immediate value to the O's since presumably we will not be better than first place.

Even if your absolute return goes down the longer you wait, your relative return goes up. I would rather try to complete with Zach when we have a legit window and still get a legit prospect back than tank in the middle of a pennant race for a slightly better prospect.

Moving him this preseason or July would have been insanely premature.