O's trade International Signing Bonus Slots to Blue Jays for OF Dwight Smith Jr

[interloper]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

I'm not saying Dan doesn't deserve some credit for Chen, he did sign him.  I just think that some preliminary work was done before he joined the team.

They did miss hard on Kim Seong-min.  That whole situation still bothers me.

It was pretty embarrassing. That and Wada really killed Dan's ability to play in the market, IMO. He still did get Kim, but it was for pennies and a position player was probably an easier sell. Who knows. Fred disappeared, too. 

I hope and believe it will be different now. 

[atomic]

4 minutes ago, interloper said:

So if that's the case, Dan only hit on Gonzo. And it was a fantastic hit. But that's really it. Missed on the Korean pitcher. Missed on Alvarez and Urrutia. Missed on Wada. Missed on Kim, unless you want to pin that on Buck.  But no matter how much that dude gets on base, he was going to have a tough time finding a ML home with that defense. 

I think it is hard to hit on guys when you are signing International guys over 21 and you are doing it on the cheap.  Especially pre-slot days.  Alvarez and Urrutia were long-shots that is why they were so cheap.  Really iI think with the amount of guys we signed and the cash we paid we did rather well.  

Also I don't think Chen was Angelos.  More likely one of those Stockstill brothers who was over in Japan. And if you want to give him credit for Chen then also give him credit for Wada as both guys were signed around the same time. 

[atomic]

I meant Chen wasn't Andy Macphail. 

[atomic]

Also what happened to that underage Korean kid we signed and had to return? Did he ever develop to any sort of player over there? 

[interloper]

1 minute ago, atomic said:

I think it is hard to hit on guys when you are signing International guys over 21 and you are doing it on the cheap.  Especially pre-slot days.  Alvarez and Urrutia were long-shots that is why they were so cheap.  Really iI think with the amount of guys we signed and the cash we paid we did rather well.  

Also I don't think Chen was Angelos.  More likely one of those Stockstill brothers who was over in Japan. And if you want to give him credit for Chen then also give him credit for Wada as both guys were signed around the same time. 

So I mean, in the entire span of Duquette's tenure (2011-2018), you could say he signed like 5 or 6 "name" guys from the international market to varying success. 

And yet you're already killing Elias for not having one in - literally - the first 5 months of his hiring? You don't think that's a little unreasonable?

[Orioles0615]

Do we know who the top International guy is come July? Talk is cheap and until we sign one of the top international guys part of me thinks everything is all talk.  

[atomic]

2 minutes ago, interloper said:

 So I mean, in the entire span of Duquette's tenure (2011-2018), you could say he signed like 5 or 6 "name" guys from the international market to varying success. 

And yet you're already killing Elias for not having one in - literally - the first 5 months of his hiring? You don't think that's a little unreasonable?

DD didn't have the authority and I doubt Elias will have the authority to go full in on International players.  I do think it will be easier for Elias than DD as the rules have changed and now the top guys can be gotten by teams in Orioles budget range.  

But people praising Elias for anything he has done , when he hasn't done anything is even more unreasonable. 

 

[interloper]

2 minutes ago, atomic said:

DD didn't have the authority and I doubt Elias will have the authority to go full in on International players.  I do think it will be easier for Elias than DD as the rules have changed and now the top guys can be gotten by teams in Orioles budget range.  

But people praising Elias for anything he has done , when he hasn't done anything is even more unreasonable. 

 

I think people are praising a few things: his ability to communicate, his follow-thru thus far with analytics, and his general plan for the organization. 

I don't think anyone is really praising anything concrete re: the international market, just his ability to explain how it works, and perhaps his hiring of Koby Perez.

A few, like me, have tried to point out that yes, the organization is still making very small international signings that we likely won't hear about again. So I'm still wait-and-see on the international thing, but I think there's plenty of reasons to like what Elias has done so far and to believe that he will eventually get it done internationally. 

[Moose Milligan]

34 minutes ago, interloper said:

I think people are praising a few things: his ability to communicate, his follow-thru thus far with analytics, and his general plan for the organization. 

I don't think anyone is really praising anything concrete re: the international market, just his ability to explain how it works, and perhaps his hiring of Koby Perez.

A few, like me, have tried to point out that yes, the organization is still making very small international signings that we likely won't hear about again. So I'm still wait-and-see on the international thing, but I think there's plenty of reasons to like what Elias has done so far and to believe that he will eventually get it done internationally. 

Great post.  And to piggyback on to what you're saying, those small signings can have big outcomes.  The odds aren't likely, but it does happen.

I said earlier this week that Acuna signed for 35k, that was wrong, it was 100k.  Top prospect Sixto Sanchez signed for 35k.

As an aside, I love it when threads get like 8 pages deep.  I knew coming in here no one would be talking about DSJ.  

 

 

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, Moose Milligan said:

Great post.  And to piggyback on to what you're saying, those small signings can have big outcomes.  The odds aren't likely, but it does happen.

I said earlier this week that Acuna signed for 35k, that was wrong, it was 100k.  Top prospect Sixto Sanchez signed for 35k.

As an aside, I love it when threads get like 8 pages deep.  I knew coming in here no one would be talking about DSJ.  

 

 

He was discussed last page.

[Moose Milligan]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

He was discussed last page.

Oh, well I'll have to go back and catch up on the latest! 

[Tony-OH]

2 hours ago, atomic said:

Also why do you think that the Marlins had to get so much extra cash to sign the Mesa brothers if they wanted to play so badly in Florida? And what evidence do you have that they wanted to play so badly in Florida.  From all reports the Orioles were several million dollars off in their offer to the Mesa brothers.  As they had more money than the Marlins having such a low bid had nothing to then wanting to play in Florida.  This Florida thing just doesn't make any sense. And I don't know where you guys got it from but making excuses from ownership that are illogical isn't a very good argument. 

Let's remember, the Orioles were basically a rudderless ship when all that went down. It would be interesting to know what Elias/Perez would have valued the Mesa brothers and the pitcher at.

[jsbearr]

On 3/11/2019 at 11:30 AM, Tony-OH said:

Yeah, i saw that as well. Could have been Asher or could have been something with Hellickson too.

I am surprised Meoli wrote that. I guess with the Duquette regime gone now, it doesnt matter. Those kind of deals are technically not allowed primarily because it skirts pool windows. But, yeah, the Asher deal wound up being for a lot and the Phillies were going to release Zoellner, so he became the vehicle.

[jtschrei]

2 hours ago, Number5 said:

No.  It's not.  It is the ability to spend that much more money.  We did not send any cash to Toronto for Smith.

So, if Toronto wanted to use it, then Toronto would have to come up with the 750K from their budget? 

Booyeah. It's an even better trade than I thought. Again. I have no problem with this. 

Isn't the only guy out there worth a penny this SS from Cuba... and it sounds like he's waiting until the next international signing period. I don't get all the bitter disappointment with this component of the Elias regime. As far as I can tell, he hired a really good person away from the Indians to get our Latin American operation going. I'm willing to give Elias some time.

[Tx Oriole]

3 hours ago, interloper said:

You're seeing what you want to see. Others are seeing expanding the analytics department (Sig mentioning only 1 developer, they've since hired more and will continue to hire more), expanding/improving the Dominican facilities, expanding/improving technology at all levels of the system, hiring an international director, etc. 

Yes, they have cut costs significantly in terms of payroll, as is in line with rebuilds of this nature. I don't understand why you don't just give it some time? 

That's what he will never do.