MLB Lockout Thread

[Tony-OH]

2 hours ago, DrungoHazewood said:

Don't really care at all. There's already advertising everywhere else.

If the trade had been commercial breaks half as long in exchange for ads on uniforms I'd take the ads in a second. 

Sure, just like if they found a way to just advertise in a box around the game for 30-seconds instead of a commercial that would help speed the game up. But they didn't trade anything away, just added more advertising in front of the viewer.

Call me crazy, but I like the uniforms clean with team or city name on front and last name of player on back. Hell, I wasn't even happy with the gigantic Nike swoosh on everything. 

[Tony-OH]

2 hours ago, MurphDogg said:

I enjoy traveling to new stadiums to see the Orioles play on the road. This means I will have the option of seeing the Orioles play a road game in a given National League stadium once every two years instead of once every six years, so I am for it.

This is also a good point. If that means I get a chance to make a trip to watch the Orioles play in Cinncinnati or Milwaukee at least every other year I'm fine with that. 

[Just Regular]

With the minimum landing at 700K after 575-ish last year, and Cot's currently showing the 2022 Orioles with eight guys above the minimum, I guess for the eighteen 0-3 guys 2022 salaries will run about $2.25M extra.

[Tony-OH]

9 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Your company requires you to work in another country.  You choose to not qualify yourself to work in that country.  That is your choice.   The company should not be required to pay you for work you choose to make yourself ineligible for.

Having the right to make a decision does not exclude you from the consequences of that choice.

If the player chose not to get a passport for whatever reason and therefor couldn't play in Canada do you think he should still get paid?

If your company does not require you to have a vaccine to work, then yes, you should be paid if you can't work in a country they do business in. 

This is simple and not even debatable. This has nothing to do with whether you agree with vaccines or not, this has to do with the fact that vaccines are not required by MLB. If MLB chooses to do business where some of their employees can not work because of local laws (and I agree that they have every right to make those laws for their country), the players should still get paid.

If MLB had any cojones, and we know they absolutely do not, they would take the team away from Toronto and put in a Buffalo where that's not an issues until Canada changes their laws to allow their players to work.

Or, MLB could institute a mandate that all players must be vaccinated. Since they have chosen to not make this mandate, the players should be paid.

 

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

If your company does not require you to have a vaccine to work, then yes, you should be paid if you can't work in a country they do business in. 

This is simple and not even debatable. This has nothing to do with whether you agree with vaccines or not, this has to do with the fact that vaccines are not required by MLB. If MLB chooses to do business where some of their employees can not work because of local laws (and I agree that they have every right to make those laws for their country), the players should still get paid.

If MLB had any cojones, and we know they absolutely do not, they would take the team away from Toronto and put in a Buffalo where that's not an issues until Canada changes their laws to allow their players to work.

Or, MLB could institute a mandate that all players must be vaccinated. Since they have chosen to not make this mandate, the players should be paid.

 

You are right this has nothing to do with vaccines, hence me mentioning passports.

Canada requires folks entering their country to do something.

If you don't do it, you can't enter the country.

If your job requires you to enter the country and you make a choice to not qualify yourself that is on you and your employer should not compensate you.  

Choices have consequences.

I do agree that it is simple and not even debatable. 

 

[LookinUp]

14 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

If MLB had any cojones, and we know they absolutely do not, they would take the team away from Toronto and put in a Buffalo where that's not an issues until Canada changes their laws to allow their players to work.

You know who had some of the largest cajones ever? The Japanese defending Okinawa during WWII. They just kept charging even though we just kept mowing them down. One company after another. Mowed down. Charging without a chance in hell. 

They had cajones, but their leaders weren't very smart. Just like it wouldn't be smart to leave a huge market to move a team to Buffalo because a few players can't get allowed into the country.

Most of this complaining comes across as get off my lawn types of stuff. They're a business squeezing revenue out of every place they can. They're not leaving Toronto and they are putting patches on uniforms. So what? At least there a little less pressure to raise ticket prices on me.

[MurphDogg]

24 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

This is also a good point. If that means I get a chance to make a trip to watch the Orioles play in Cinncinnati or Milwaukee at least every other year I'm fine with that. 

Still haven't made it out to Milwaukee. Toying with doing a quick overnight trip to St. Louis is May. Also need to hit Miami, Arizona and San Diego in the NL. In the AL I still need to hit KC, Texas, Seattle, Chicago, Tampa Bay and Oakland (though would prefer to wait for the A's and Rays to end up with new stadiums).

[Tony-OH]

24 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

You are right this has nothing to do with vaccines, hence me mentioning passports.

Canada requires folks entering their country to do something.

If you don't do it, you can't enter the country.

If your job requires you to enter the country and you make a choice to not qualify yourself that is on you and your employer should not compensate you.  

Choices have consequences.

I do agree that it is simple and not even debatable. 

 

But your employer has not made that a requirement. That's the issue here that you are failing to understand or refusing to accept. 

Answer me this, Seattle decides that to work in their city you must be vaccinated for Anthrax. Should every player who has not gotten an Anthrax vaccine not get paid when their team visits Seattle? 

Where does this end?

MLB has rules for employment for MLB players and personnel. Getting vaccinated for anything is not among the rules. If MLB chooses to play baseball in a country or city that has different rules from them, the players who do not meet those local rules should absolutely be paid or MLB should not play in those areas. 

I'm not debating the right to get vaccinated or not here. I'd debating the fact that your employer has rules for your employment and as long as you follow those rules and are willing to play/work, then you should be paid. 

And BTW, when players had passports issues with Canada in the past, they still got paid.

[Tony-OH]

8 minutes ago, LookinUp said:

You know who had some of the largest cajones ever? The Japanese defending Okinawa during WWII. They just kept charging even though we just kept mowing them down. One company after another. Mowed down. Charging without a chance in hell. 

They had cajones, but their leaders weren't very smart. Just like it wouldn't be smart to leave a huge market to move a team to Buffalo because a few players can't get allowed into the country.

Most of this complaining comes across as get off my lawn types of stuff. They're a business squeezing revenue out of every place they can. They're not leaving Toronto and they are putting patches on uniforms. So what? At least there a little less pressure to raise ticket prices on me.

This post literally reminded me of the scene in Billy Madison where Billy thinks he said something really smart, but the moderator just eviscerates him with this: 

Getting all spun up over cojanes and spinning it towards historical warfare has to be one of, if not the dumbest analogy, I've see used on this board. 

May God have mercy on your soul! 

Just because I think they should leave Toronto for Buffalo doesn't mean I think they will do it and yes, we all know MLB is going to start putting their stupid advertising patches on their uniforms. No one is claiming they are no longer a fan if these things happen or don't happen.

[TonySoprano]

Interesting bit from Jayson Stark's latest

Quote

Will clubs honor the spirit of this rule? Or will they still be willing to gamble that a player like that won’t be a rookie of the year contender if they still play the service-time game and send him to the minors? (Remember, there are also extra draft-pick inducements for clubs who place players like Bryant on their Opening Day roster.)

“No, this will work — for four guys,” said one of the execs quoted earlier. “And from their standpoint, at least that’s better than none.”

But one longtime small-market executive had his doubts.

“Would this change when we’d call up a player, based on the possibility he’d get a full year of service? No,” that exec said. “If our plan was to keep him down there until June, the odds are that a guy who comes up in June would not be the rookie of the year, right? And what if we’re wrong, and he gets that year of service? Hey, that’s just the cost of doing business.”

That may seem cold, and 100 percent opposed to the spirit of this rule. But as cold-hearted front-office honchos have been proving for years, any system based on counting days is a system that can be manipulated. So why do we suspect we could be back in this same, uncomfortable place in five years, trying to remind the powers that be again that there’s something wrong with a sport that rewards teams for not putting its best players on the field.

https://theathletic.com/3176790/2022/03/10/how-will-baseballs-new-labor-deal-work-a-look-into-the-future-luxury-tax-expanded-playoffs-draft-lottery-more/

[Tony-OH]

8 minutes ago, MurphDogg said:

Still haven't made it out to Milwaukee. Toying with doing a quick overnight trip to St. Louis is May. Also need to hit Miami, Arizona and San Diego in the NL. In the AL I still need to hit KC, Texas, Seattle, Chicago, Tampa Bay and Oakland (though would prefer to wait for the A's and Rays to end up with new stadiums).

Some friends of mine have started talking to me about doing a few cities a year. I've honestly only been to Nats, Colorado, and Pittsburgh for games when it comes to current stadiums. 

[Tony-OH]

3 minutes ago, TonySoprano said:

Interesting bit from Jayson Stark's latest

https://theathletic.com/3176790/2022/03/10/how-will-baseballs-new-labor-deal-work-a-look-into-the-future-luxury-tax-expanded-playoffs-draft-lottery-more/

It's pretty amazing that this was the best they could come up with to solve this issue. It's just dumb.

[TonySoprano]

6 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

It's pretty amazing that this was the best they could come up with to solve this issue. It's just dumb.

I was hoping this changed the dynamic on when the Orioles call up Rutschman.  After reading the quote from a "long-time small market executive," I'm having doubts much will change.

[LookinUp]

3 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

Just because I think they should leave Toronto for Buffalo doesn't mean I think they will do it and yes, we all know MLB is going to start putting their stupid advertising patches on their uniforms. No one is claiming they are no longer a fan if these things happen or don't happen.

Well-played. I love that stupid movie and scene! I know it was an extreme example. I like to illustrate absurdity with absurd examples.

All that said, my opinion is that the rancor over this whole process has been misplaced. A lot of people freaked out, said nobody cares about the fans, are all greedy, etc., when it's just the way the whole process is meant to work. I actually think it worked great. Small delay, which was nothing more than a leverage game, in return for an agreement. And they actually create committees and commit to future negotiations regarding what's best for the game. Like, they weren't just talking about $$$ like everyone said.

I'm happy with the way it went. Don't love the universal DH mostly because I'd love no DH in either league, but at least that rule creates a level playing field across baseball. Other than that, incremental improvements. For all of the hate on Manfred, I think this turned out just fine.

[Can_of_corn]

17 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

But your employer has not made that a requirement. That's the issue here that you are failing to understand or refusing to accept. 

Answer me this, Seattle decides that to work in their city you must be vaccinated for Anthrax. Should every player who has not gotten an Anthrax vaccine not get paid when their team visits Seattle? 

Where does this end?

MLB has rules for employment for MLB players and personnel. Getting vaccinated for anything is not among the rules. If MLB chooses to play baseball in a country or city that has different rules from them, the players who do not meet those local rules should absolutely be paid or MLB should not play in those areas. 

I'm not debating the right to get vaccinated or not here. I'd debating the fact that your employer has rules for your employment and as long as you follow those rules and are willing to play/work, then you should be paid. 

And BTW, when players had passports issues with Canada in the past, they still got paid.

1.  But it has made it a requirement, by having games in Canada.
2. Yep
3. Hopefully when folks all get vaccinated
4. They don't have to.  The players are required to be eligible to play in the other cities.
5. To me being able to do your job should be a requirement to get paid for doing your job.  If you purposefully make yourself ineligible to work you should not get paid.
6. If someone has made a sincere attempt to get vaccinated and for some reason could not, I agree they should get paid.  If someone makes no attempt to get a passport I do not think he should get paid.