Joey Ortiz 2022

[oh-wee-ohs]

2 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

I could see Westburg or Ortiz as a super utility guy with the other starting.    I don't know about Mateo.  He's slipping into old habits and the Orioles may envision Henderson as a SS.   Ortiz is also a plus SS.    Mateo might not have a ton of value but he's proven himself to be a ML starting SS this year.   I think he might get moved.    I could see Urias surviving for now as the OD 3B next year with Henderson at SS and Westburg/Ortiz at 2B.    OR it could be Mateo as SS with Henderson at 3B and Ortiz/Westburg at 2B with Urias as a the super sub.   There is a lot of flexibility there.

Could also see, much to the dismay of many I'm sure, Gunnar being used next year like he is being used this year since he's better all around the infield. Urias at third when Gunnar is on tour. Provided both he and Mateo are still Orioles. Anyways, back to Joey. I like Gunnar, Mateo, Ortiz at 3B, SS, 2B. And Gunnar, Ortiz, Westburg/Norby if Mateo gets moved. But, I think Mateo is here thru 2023 at least. 

[RZNJ]

11 minutes ago, oh-wee-ohs said:

Could also see, much to the dismay of many I'm sure, Gunnar being used next year like he is being used this year since he's better all around the infield. Urias at third when Gunnar is on tour. Provided both he and Mateo are still Orioles. Anyways, back to Joey. I like Gunnar, Mateo, Ortiz at 3B, SS, 2B. And Gunnar, Ortiz, Westburg/Norby if Mateo gets moved. But, I think Mateo is here thru 2023 at least. 

I think Gunnar starts next year firmly in one position at 3B or SS, although he may fill in at one or the other occasionally.   It all depends on where they think Gunnar's future position is.   If it's SS, Mateo goes and the early looks I've seen of Gunnar suggest that he's not going to be only "average" at SS.     Obviously, we need to see more but he moves very well and has a great arm.   I'm not so sure he isn't every bit the SS Mateo is.

Edited September 5, 2022 by RZNJ

[LookinUp]

Hasn't slowed down in AAA yet through a small sample of 6 games.

It's really a tale of two seasons for Ortiz. Was terrible in April and June, ok I guess in May, but scorching with over a 1.000 OPS in July, August and so far in September. 

[RZNJ]

14 minutes ago, LookinUp said:

Hasn't slowed down in AAA yet through a small sample of 6 games.

It's really a tale of two seasons for Ortiz. Was terrible in April and June, ok I guess in May, but scorching with over a 1.000 OPS in July, August and so far in September. 

The story is that he could not swing a bat in a normal way until February coming of of labrum surgery last year so there is every reason to believe he was not 100% physically when the season started.   There has been no let up since July 1 for him so whatever clicked at that time has been over 2 months now.      Even if you don't buy Joey Ortiz being a 1.000 OPS player, that's exactly who has been at AA and AAA since July 1.     Let's see how he finishes at Norfolk.   Maybe he won't need the 200 AB's at a level treatment to have a real shot to open next season with the Orioles.

[CharmCityHokie]

I'm betting one of Ortiz or Westburg are going to be headliners in a trade for a starting pitcher over the winter. I kinda prefer to keep Ortiz just because I love the defense. 

[Prayin4Reign]

33 minutes ago, CharmCityHokie said:

I'm betting one of Ortiz or Westburg are going to be headliners in a trade for a starting pitcher over the winter. I kinda prefer to keep Ortiz just because I love the defense. 

Wouldn't surprise me either.  This offseason we'll start to move some talent and bolster the rotation.  Only makes sense.  

[Gurgi]

I dont see it that way.  I still see the Orioles needing to fill third and second base.  If we let Mateo go Ortiz can do SS Gunnar third and Westburg second.   Even if we keep Mateo I think we need someone to fill second.   Either Westburg or Ortiz fills that spot.   I see us going the FA route on pitching and dont see us trading either Westburg or Ortiz.

[Frobby]

12 minutes ago, Gurgi said:

I dont see it that way.  I still see the Orioles needing to fill third and second base.  If we let Mateo go Ortiz can do SS Gunnar third and Westburg second.   Even if we keep Mateo I think we need someone to fill second.   Either Westburg or Ortiz fills that spot.   I see us going the FA route on pitching and dont see us trading either Westburg or Ortiz.

What about Urias?  He’s under control for another 4 years.  Worth 3.3 rWAR so far this year.  Are you betting on Westburg to be better than that?

[interloper]

11 minutes ago, Frobby said:

What about Urias?  He’s under control for another 4 years.  Worth 3.3 rWAR so far this year.  Are you betting on Westburg to be better than that?

I like Urias, but man that WAR seems high. Must be a lot from defense like Mateo, because a 3.3 WAR with a sub-.300 OBP is tough to do. 15 home runs is decent though. 

I like to think that a guy with more power and solid defensive skills, like Westburg, would eventually be an improvement over Urias, but I would bet against it early in Westburg's career. 

Edited September 8, 2022 by interloper

[interloper]

27 minutes ago, Gurgi said:

I dont see it that way.  I still see the Orioles needing to fill third and second base.  If we let Mateo go Ortiz can do SS Gunnar third and Westburg second.   Even if we keep Mateo I think we need someone to fill second.   Either Westburg or Ortiz fills that spot.   I see us going the FA route on pitching and dont see us trading either Westburg or Ortiz.

It sounds good in theory, but odds are against Ortiz/Gunnar/Westburg being better than Mateo/Gunnar/Urias. Just look at Stowers - he's taking his lumps. Guys not named Gunnar or Adley will struggle for a good while, potentially months of a season.

[Frobby]

3 minutes ago, interloper said:

I like Urias, but man that WAR seems high. Must be a lot from defense like Mateo, because a 3.3 WAR with a sub-.300 OBP is tough to do. 15 home runs is decent as well. 

I like to think that a guy with more power and solid defensive skills, like Westburg, would eventually be an improvement over Urias, but I would bet against it early in Westburg's career. 

The first thing I do when rWAR seems high is check fWAR.   They have him at 2.2.   That’s still a solid number, though obviously not as high.   

Lots of good options for next year and beyond.   Elias has interesting decisions to make this winter.  
 

[orioles22]

I just can't see trading Mateo. He looks like a rising star to me. That triple on Tuesday may have won the game, and very few can run like him or make the plays he does at short. I think we're solid at short with Mateo, and then good at third with Henderson. I think Urias moves to second for 2023. I wouldn't be surprised to see Westburg moved in a deal for pitching, but I don't see him as the "headliner."

[RZNJ]

The whole idea of drafting players like Westburg, Ortiz, etc. was to have cheap options and then use the depth to get other ML pieces or acquire more talent in the prospect pipeline.   I don't think it's likely they trade Westburg and/or Ortiz so they can keep both Mateo and Urias.   I think for sure, Henderson and one of Westburg/Ortiz is in the infield next year.   Could they keep both Urias and Mateo and use Ortiz/Westburg like they are using Henderson now?   Yes.    Ultimately, Urias and Mateo are gone within the next 2 years, IMO.

Because of veteranosity and the way it works, Urias will either be the 3B or not on the team at all.   Mateo will either be the SS or not on the team at all.   I would guess that one of the two is moved this offseason.

[LookinUp]

20 minutes ago, orioles22 said:

I just can't see trading Mateo. He looks like a rising star to me. That triple on Tuesday may have won the game, and very few can run like him or make the plays he does at short. I think we're solid at short with Mateo, and then good at third with Henderson. I think Urias moves to second for 2023. I wouldn't be surprised to see Westburg moved in a deal for pitching, but I don't see him as the "headliner."

I have no idea what Elias will do, but if feels like he'd rather move some of our major league pieces instead of the minor league pieces.

Mateo, Urias and Hays would make sense to move this offseason. None are critical and I don't know what the return would be, but having a full 6 years of control of Westburg, Ortiz and Cowser (could be 7 for all 3 depending on how soon they come up).

But Ortiz is looking like a plus defender and average or better hitter. That's a first division middle infielder with full ML control. I see him being on the field for us next year.

[wildcard]

Mateo plays GG shortstop and so far has a 785 OPS in the 2nd half.  I want to see how he ends the season but that is a starting SS.   No one on the club is going to be a better two way 3rd baseman than Gunner.   He will take Urias job at 3B.

2nd base is Urias, Westburg and Ortiz to fight over.   But I am not sure either Ortiz or Westburg are ready on OD.  One of these three can be a backup infielder.   There is no problem with accumulating talent at AAA in case of injuries.   Baylor and Grich were All-Stars at AAA and still went back to AAA the next season. If there is one infielder I think they may move for a prospect its Vavra.   I don't think he fits in the infield or the outfield.

Deep depth is a thing.

People keep saying that the O's need starting pitching but then there is Grayson,  Wells, Kremer, Bradish, Voth, Means in the 2nd half and DL Hall probably beginning at AAA but all he really needs for  a promotion is a good month.   Baumann as a swing man.  Personally I think they pick up Lyles' option for the innings he can give them as a 4th starter.

Why trade the infield depth away for a starter they don't really need?

Edited September 8, 2022 by wildcard