Should Mike Mussina’s number have been retired?

[emmett16]

1 hour ago, OriolesMagic83 said:

Yeah, I looked it up, he did.  He pretty much proclaimed his love of the Yankees and Rays and his hatred of the Red Sox and they still retired his number.

To be fair, everyone hates the Red Sox. 

[emmett16]

1 hour ago, Sports Guy said:

DBag #2 has entered the fray

 

Seriously, where was all this nonsense when Brad Brach was lights out wearing 35 for a few years?

[Gofannon]

26 minutes ago, SteveA said:

I wonder if these idiots realize that Adley is like the 7th player to wear 35 since Mussina left.   Did they sound the alarm when Adam Plutko wore it last year???

I sounded the alarm, but mostly it was because Adam Plutko was on the Baltimore Orioles.

[OriolesMagic83]

1 minute ago, Gofannon said:

I sounded the alarm, but mostly it was because Adam Plutko was on the Baltimore Orioles.

Nobody was aware, but that was when the O's hit rock bottom.

[maybenxtyr]

9 minutes ago, Frobby said:

No, and the Yankees have retired 22 numbers, including several players not as good as Mussina.   https://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/NYY/

That said, I don’t think his number should have been retired by the Yankees.  

I agree...I already knew that they didn't retire it, but I didn't take the time to search and see who else has wore it. 

It's a whole lotta nothing in my opinion.

 

[Gofannon]

Two questions:

Is Mussina the greatest Oriole not to have his number retired?

For those who vote no on this, if Mussina had signed with the Los Angeles Dodgers instead of the Yankees, would your answer be different?

[Just Regular]

59 minutes ago, btdart20 said:

Earning their money by taking their pot shots at everyone's favorite punching bag...  

Let's beat the Yankees again tonight.

[DrungoHazewood]

1 hour ago, SteveA said:

I wonder if these idiots realize that Adley is like the 7th player to wear 35 since Mussina left.   Did they sound the alarm when Adam Plutko wore it last year???

Baseball's unwritten rule #912: Only give the number of a former player who left prior to cementing HOF status to a scrub so that fans know that it's still really the former guy's number and the scrub is just renting it for a bit.  If you give it to another star you're disrespecting the former guy.

I mean, who doesn't know that? It right there in the section of the unwritten rulebook right after the part about when you can and can't do a delayed double steal with a 7+ run lead.

[Frobby]

52 minutes ago, Gofannon said:

Two questions:

Is Mussina the greatest Oriole not to have his number retired?

For those who vote no on this, if Mussina had signed with the Los Angeles Dodgers instead of the Yankees, would your answer be different?

By “greatest Oriole” do you mean greatest player while he was an Oriole, or greatest overall player who spent part of his career as an Oriole?  Either way, the answer to the first question is probably yes, unless you’re going to include great overall players who wore the black and orange for a short time.   

[Gofannon]

4 minutes ago, Frobby said:

By “greatest Oriole” do you mean greatest player while he was an Oriole, or greatest overall player who spent part of his career as an Oriole?  Either way, the answer to the first question is probably yes, unless you’re going to include great overall players who wore the black and orange for a short time.   

Definitely asking about greatest player as an Oriole.  There have been plenty of MLB Hall of Famers who passed through Baltimore briefly and would never be part of a conversation like this.

[DrungoHazewood]

55 minutes ago, Gofannon said:

Is Mussina the greatest Oriole not to have his number retired?

Depending on how you define terms you could make some arguments for Keeler, Kelley, Jennings, McGraw, Grove, McGinnity, Ruth, Matt Kilroy, Jack Bentley, Jack Ogden and maybe a few others.  But I don't think any of them played for the Orioles when numbers were worn on their uniform. Would probably be unprecedented to retire <blank>.

[crowmst3k!]

1 hour ago, Gofannon said:

Two questions:

Is Mussina the greatest Oriole not to have his number retired?

For those who vote no on this, if Mussina had signed with the Los Angeles Dodgers instead of the Yankees, would your answer be different?

1. Yes. 

2. No.  

Regardless of where he chose to seek employment afterwards, nobody can deny his greatness in Baltimore.  

 

[foxfield]

5 hours ago, Gofannon said:

Two questions:

Is Mussina the greatest Oriole not to have his number retired?

For those who vote no on this, if Mussina had signed with the Los Angeles Dodgers instead of the Yankees, would your answer be different?

Great question.

#1.  Yes, but the answer here is debatable and based on how you frame the question I am relying solely on his Oriole tenure.  Mussina has no individual awards, and 2 playoff seasons in 10 years.  During that time, Mussina has 147 wins which is more than every pitcher not named Palmer or McNally for Baltimore.  The second most WAR for pitchers at 47.7 and while the 96 playoff season was not great stuff for Moose his 97 playoff beating Randy Johnson twice was spectacular.  Alas, in 96 we lost in the ALCS to Jeffry Mayer and in 97 we lost in the ALCS to the Indians.  That is a strong case even without adding 8 seasons in a Yankee uniform.  He is a legit HOF player.

There is no former Oriole (unretired #) who has more WAR during their Oriole tenure than Mussina.  Belanger had 40.9, Grich 36, Boog Powell 35.4.  McNally had 25.3, Flanny 21.5 and Mike Cuellar had 17.2.  All of those guys won individual awards, led the O's to the WS or won the WS.  I do think the overall team accomplishments matter.   But unless we pass all the way to someone like Harold Baines, Mike Mussina is the only HOF player to spend a significant chunk of his time in Baltimore to not have his number retired.  Manny Machado and Adam Jones had 31.9 and 32.5 WAR which for reference point, sandwiches the retired number 20, HOF Frank Robinson who had 32.4 WAR as an Oriole.

I would be fine either way, and have said I hold no animosity towards Mussina for going to the Yankees.  This is being driven not by Mussina but by guys who love taking shots at the Orioles.  You remember of course that these same people advocated for Mussina to go into the HOF as Yankee.  The point is that if we hold just what they did as Orioles up to the light, Mussina is unarguably one of the greatest Orioles not to have his number retired.  I personally believe Bobyy Grich, Dave McNally, Mark Belanger and even Mike Cuellar are all very close.  You could also consider Manny and Adam Jones among others.  Heyman and Olney are getting their clicks.  There is no call to retire the number in NY... just in Baltimore.  It's not about Mike Mussina, it's about Peter Angelos.

#2.  Presupposes bias.  If we are being honest, it makes no difference where he signed.  It makes a difference in what we think of the player...but it should not impact the answer to #1.

[SilverRocket]

I don't have a strong opinion on whether his number should be retired. But since I started watching baseball as a kid in 1991, the Orioles have mostly been bad, but had two good stretches: the Mussina era and the Machado era. I'm always going to appreciate what they did. And given the rehashing here of what happened, I can't blame him for leaving. Angelos should've been the one doing him a favor, not the other way around.

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

38 minutes ago, SilverRocket said:

I don't have a strong opinion on whether his number should be retired. But since I started watching baseball as a kid in 1991, the Orioles have mostly been bad, but had two good stretches: the Mussina era and the Machado era. I'm always going to appreciate what they did. And given the rehashing here of what happened, I can't blame him for leaving. Angelos should've been the one doing him a favor, not the other way around.

Yeah the emotional side of me was like screw Mussina when he signed with the Yankees, but when you step back and think about it Mussina made the right move for his career. Plus we can still point out how the Yankees never won the World Series when Mussina played for the franchise. 

It's not like Mussina leaving caused 15 years of dysfunction that was all on ownership and the front office.