Is Elias the best GM in team history?

[Orioles0615]

needs to win something first, but getting closer

[Roll Tide]

On 9/29/2023 at 8:02 AM, Moose Milligan said:

Obviously his chapter as GM isn't over, but is he already the best GM in Orioles history?  Yes, hyperbole, recency bias, etc.

There's a lot of great GMs in the history of the team; Harry Dalton, Lee MacPhail, Frank Cashen, Henry Peters, Pat Gillick and Dan Duquette.  I am sure I am probably missing a name or two.

But when you consider that a lot of those names weren't competing in an era where free agency wasn't a thing or when free agency was in it's infancy, I think Elias is in a class of his own.  Gillick and Duquette were "win now" types that didn't put too much of an emphasis on the minor league system, even though DD's fingerprints are on the team that won the division last night.  But I always think of DD as a guy who was fixing an airplane while it was flying.

Taking into consideration the amount that other teams in the division spend and that the system was in the lower third of practically every ranking when he took over, it's hard not to look at Elias as the best GM in the history of the franchise.  Going from 52 wins two years ago to 100 wins and a division title in two years is something no one has done in baseball history, IIRC.  It's been a complete overhaul and it's a new "Oriole Way."

Like I said, his chapter isn't over yet but given his circumstances (read: dealing with John Angelos) I do believe he's the best we've had.  

He’s the modern day savior but we were a dynasty in the 60s/70s. I’d say a couple of WS and continued health of the Organization through scouting, development, and shrew moves might put him in the conversation.

[geschinger]

9 hours ago, baltfan said:

Elias hasn’t proven he can draft and develop pitching.  Before putting him at the top of the list, I would like to see him show he can do that. 

I'm not 100% convinced this matters much if the analytics show that the hit rate on identifying and acquiring pitchers from other organizations is higher than using valuable draft capital to acquire. 

We haven't seen Elias start to move any of the excess positional prospect assets yet but I'm not convinced those positional prospects aren't a better way to bring pitching into the organization than spending a significant portion of limited draft capital on pitching would be.  Jury is still out IMO.

[btdart20]

Let’s see a few seasons before making this leap.  We’re trending in the right direction from multiple angles at least.

[Moose Milligan]

1 hour ago, baltfan said:

None of the pitchers he has drafted are yet significant major league prospects. Other teams are also  prioritizing drafting position players. I am concerned that this is driving down the market value of position player prospects and driving up the price for pitching prospects.  Teams no the Orioles have a glut of position players, we can see from what Elias said about the trade deadline teams are looking to exploit our position.  

But…you can get pitching in other ways. Why so reliant on the draft?

For example, if Elias gets a great pitching prospect from his international program, are you upset?

[Roll Tide]

On 9/29/2023 at 8:13 AM, Frobby said:

You didn’t name the one I’d pick, Paul Richards.  He established the entire “Oriole Way.”  The team didn’t have a winning season until the year he turned over the reins to MacPhail (though Richards remained the manager), but he basically built the foundation that underlaid the team having 24 winning seasons in 26 years.

I do think that Elias is right up there, though.  The organization was in desperate straits when he took the reins, and now they are well-positioned for a long run of success. 

I hear you …. But, the real savior was/is removing Peter from the equation. I honestly believe Gillick, Wren, A McPhail, and some other would’ve redone the scouting and development departments. I believe they were smart enough to see it as a problem. By the time they were here the number of real prospects that turned into anything more than a fringe MLB player was very few. And anybody could’ve drafted Wieters (who fell short of expectations), Markais, Adley, Mussina, McDonald, Machado, Olson. But, really they got little else from Cal to a few years ago through the system and to the majors. Especially after the first round which is why I say any of us could’ve drafted them. John Angelos is far from perfect but he obviously learned from the thinking he knew better than the baseball people. Remember under Angelos we had little International presence and our scouting team was a undermanned bone yard.

[Osornot]

On 9/29/2023 at 8:14 AM, ThisIsBirdland said:

I’m not enough of an Os history guy to speak definitively about the pre-Pat Gillick days, but he’s certainly the best in my lifetime and it isn’t close. Also while Elias appropriately credits DD for having a few pieces in place, DD also had quite a few key pieces from Andy MacPhail.

I was happy to see Elias give Angelos pretty effusive, unprompted praise last night in his interview. I don’t care for Angelos at all but given the fans collective angst that Angelos and Elias will ultimately want a divorce sooner rather than later, I don’t think you’d see the GM volunteering those comments unprompted if there was legitimate tension behind the scenes. Obviously it could just be Elias caught up in the moment or playing good professional politics, but I thought it was a good sign. 

I don't know but if it is true it was voluntary, that's great!  We do not need him to get Kevin-Browned.