MLB Offseason Moves/Rumor Thread

[interloper]

Lorenzen makes too much sense for where the Orioles are at right now. Let's say you sign him to 2/$24. Your rotation becomes:

Burnes
Grayson
Kremer
Irvin or Wells
Lorenzen

When Means comes back, if no one else has gotten injured, you can move someone to the bullpen. If Bradish comes back, well, that's a miracle and a nice problem to have, but the Orioles should not be operating on the assumption that he returns. 

Next year, Means and Burnes will be gone, but you at least still have a #5 starter (or bullpen guy) with Lorenzen on his 2nd year.

I'd sign him in a heartbeat because I don't trust our SP depth very much. It looks okay right now on paper, but how many innings can we really count on from Means? Is Irvin going to be a guy or not? Can Wells hold up? Kremer threw 175 innings last year - does his arm hold up this year? What if Grayson pulls another 2023 first half and we have to send him down to fix him again? There are just a lot of questions. Adding another guy like Lorenzen protects you from a lot of that, at least from an innings perspective. 

[Ohfan67]

8 minutes ago, interloper said:

Lorenzen makes too much sense for where the Orioles are at right now. Let's say you sign him to 2/$24. Your rotation becomes:

Burnes
Grayson
Kremer
Irvin or Wells
Lorenzen

When Means comes back, if no one else has gotten injured, you can move someone to the bullpen. If Bradish comes back, well, that's a miracle and a nice problem to have, but the Orioles should not be operating on the assumption that he returns. 

Next year, Means and Burnes will be gone, but you at least still have a #5 starter (or bullpen guy) with Lorenzen on his 2nd year.

I'd sign him in a heartbeat because I don't trust our SP depth very much. It looks okay right now on paper, but how many innings can we really count on from Means? Is Irvin going to be a guy or not? Can Wells hold up? Kremer threw 175 innings last year - does his arm hold up this year? What if Grayson pulls another 2023 first half and we have to send him down to fix him again? There are just a lot of questions. Adding another guy like Lorenzen protects you from a lot of that, at least from an innings perspective. 

So if Means, Irvin, Wells, Kremer, and Grayson all get hurt or have bad years then signing Lorenzen is going "protect from a lot of that"? You might as well include an asteroid taking out Camden Yards during a game in the what-if list. 

[CaptainRedbeard]

I just don’t think Lorenzen is very good. He was a 4.55 xERA, 4.46 FIP, 4.68 xFIP last year. The projection systems think he is something like a 4.60-4.80 guy. He’s 32. He doesn’t even have a long track record of being a durable starting pitcher. 

They already signed Teheran. I don’t see what Lorenzen offers that he doesn’t, and I don’t even think they really need Teheran. 

Why bother spending any amount of money on Lorenzen when we have a huge amount of pitchers that could probably offer something similar?

[clapdiddy]

Just now, CaptainRedbeard said:

I just don’t think Lorenzen is very good. He was a 4.55 xERA, 4.46 FIP, 4.68 xFIP last year. The projection systems think he is something like a 4.60-4.80 guy. He’s 32. He doesn’t even have a long track record of being a durable starting pitcher. 

They already signed Teheran. I don’t see what Lorenzen offers that he doesn’t, and I don’t even think they really need Teheran. 

Why bother spending any amount of money on Lorenzen when we have a huge amount of pitchers that could probably offer something similar?

Agreed.   Spending money on a guy like Lorenzen seems like a bad idea to me.  If you are going to make a move, make it a significant one...not something that doesn't move the needle.

[interloper]

50 minutes ago, Ohfan67 said:

So if Means, Irvin, Wells, Kremer, and Grayson all get hurt or have bad years then signing Lorenzen is going "protect from a lot of that"? You might as well include an asteroid taking out Camden Yards during a game in the what-if list. 

Huh? Where did I say he'd protect against ALL of that happening? Of course not. But it's nice to have him around when the rotation is out 2 guys next year. Or if someone else gets hurt this year. 

Whatever happened to "you can't have enough pitching"? It's wild to me that anyone would be against a 2 year deal for a decent SP, even if you had 5 healthy starters, which we don't. 

[Ohfan67]

10 minutes ago, interloper said:

Huh? Where did I say he'd protect against ALL of that happening? Of course not. But it's nice to have him around when the rotation is out 2 guys next year. Or if someone else gets hurt this year. 

Whatever happened to "you can't have enough pitching"? It's wild to me that anyone would be against a 2 year deal for a decent SP, even if you had 5 healthy starters, which we don't. 

There was an awful lot of hand-wringing in your post. A nearly endless stream of negative what-ifs. The what-ifs work both ways. 

[interloper]

3 minutes ago, Ohfan67 said:

There was an awful lot of hand-wringing in your post. A nearly endless stream of negative what-ifs. The what-ifs work both ways. 

I really think you're misreading my post. The intent was not to be negative at all. There is risk and question marks with any rotation, and adding more starting pitchers helps mitigate some of that risk, IMO. 

In the post I said the depth is good on paper and it is. We have Irvin and Wells. I just like the depth better when it's Irvin and Wells and Lorenzen. That's all! 

[Billy F-Face3]

Most of thr delth the Orioles already have is better than Lorenzen at a fraction of the price. And they keep looking out for mote opportunities to sign or claim new pitchers. Teheran and Suarez are good examples of that.

And I would take Tyler Wells,  Cole Irvin, John Means, and Kyle Bradish iver Lorenzen any day if the week no matter what their salaries were. I'd take Teheran over Lorenzen at this point.

Lorenzen doesn't make any sense at all. 

[interloper]

26 minutes ago, Billy F-Face3 said:

Most of thr delth the Orioles already have is better than Lorenzen at a fraction of the price. And they keep looking out for mote opportunities to sign or claim new pitchers. Teheran and Suarez are good examples of that.

And I would take Tyler Wells,  Cole Irvin, John Means, and Kyle Bradish iver Lorenzen any day if the week no matter what their salaries were. I'd take Teheran over Lorenzen at this point.

Lorenzen doesn't make any sense at all. 

95% of this message board had no interest in Cole Irvin starting games until he showed up to spring training with 3 more mph on his fastball and being in good shape, etc. He's had 2 nice spring outings and while I'm excited about him as well, it's also like 5 innings total. In spring training. So let's pump the brakes on Irvin being the rotation savior. 

If one more pitcher gets hurt, who is starting? Bruce Zimmermann? Teheran? They've already said McDermott, Povich, and Johnson will be in the minors to start the year. 

It doesn't have to be Lorenzen if you don't prefer him, but this team absolutely would benefit by having another legitimate SP to help cover innings. In theory, sure, they can get by until Means is back in May, but you wouldn't feel better having another starting candidate just in case? I sure would.

Edited March 6 by interloper

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, interloper said:

95% of this message board had no interest in Cole Irvin starting games until he showed up to spring training with 3 more mph on his fastball and being in good shape, etc. He's had 2 nice spring outings and while I'm excited about him as well, it's also like 5 innings total. In spring training. So let's pump the brakes on Irvin being the rotation savior. 

If one more pitcher gets hurt, who is starting? Bruce Zimmermann? Teheran? They've already said McDermott, Povich, and Johnson will be in the minors to start the year. 

It doesn't have to be Lorenzen if you don't prefer him, but this team absolutely would benefit by having another legitimate SP to help cover innings. In theory, sure, they can get by until Means is back in May, but you wouldn't feel better having another starting candidate just in case? I sure would.

Sure.  The question is simply how much is the team willing to pay for an insurance policy.  

I’m interested to see how Teheran does tonight and throughout the spring.  

 

[Sports Guy]

2/24 for Lorenzen?  WTF?  Would you give Tyler Wells 2/24 if he was a FA right now?

[Spy Fox]

2 hours ago, interloper said:

95% of this message board had no interest in Cole Irvin starting games until he showed up to spring training with 3 more mph on his fastball and being in good shape, etc. He's had 2 nice spring outings and while I'm excited about him as well, it's also like 5 innings total. In spring training. So let's pump the brakes on Irvin being the rotation savior. 

If one more pitcher gets hurt, who is starting? Bruce Zimmermann? Teheran? They've already said McDermott, Povich, and Johnson will be in the minors to start the year. 

It doesn't have to be Lorenzen if you don't prefer him, but this team absolutely would benefit by having another legitimate SP to help cover innings. In theory, sure, they can get by until Means is back in May, but you wouldn't feel better having another starting candidate just in case? I sure would.

I think your first paragraph is overselling the the amount of Irvin negativity. There are some skeptics but I think the more common perspective has been that he's a fine 5th starter option, even before his spring starts. And that the push for rotation improvement was more about insuring the top half than about a black hole in the bottom half. 

My stance is, another SP injury would be bad, but it wouldn't spell doom for the team even if they have to slot a Teheran or Zimmermann or SP prospect in for a while. I'd be fine with Lorenzen on a cheap deal, but I don't blame Elias for holding the status quo for the moment. 

[Moose Milligan]

I'd be "fine" with Lorenzen on a 1 year deal.  And I put fine in quotes cause that's more of an eye-roll but would begrudgingly go along with it.

Would be surprised to see if Elias makes another deal outside of something Teheran-like to bolster the rotation.  I do believe it is what it is at this point.

[Spy Fox]

On 3/5/2024 at 12:36 PM, spleen1015 said:

You're right. I just looked it up. I'm thinking of Rodon.

Ah, the Yankees definitely paid the injury price on him last year. And as for this year...

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/39668625/yankees-carlos-rodon-gives-two-hrs-mixed-bag-outing

Quote

TAMPA, Fla. -- Carlos Rodon's second Grapefruit League start of 2024 was "a mixed bag" featuring continued experimentation, a lack of zip on his fastball and bookending home runs.

 

[sportsfan8703]

15 hours ago, interloper said:

95% of this message board had no interest in Cole Irvin starting games until he showed up to spring training with 3 more mph on his fastball and being in good shape, etc. He's had 2 nice spring outings and while I'm excited about him as well, it's also like 5 innings total. In spring training. So let's pump the brakes on Irvin being the rotation savior. 

If one more pitcher gets hurt, who is starting? Bruce Zimmermann? Teheran? They've already said McDermott, Povich, and Johnson will be in the minors to start the year. 

It doesn't have to be Lorenzen if you don't prefer him, but this team absolutely would benefit by having another legitimate SP to help cover innings. In theory, sure, they can get by until Means is back in May, but you wouldn't feel better having another starting candidate just in case? I sure would.

You’re right about the 95% part. The rotation is essentially what it was around Thanksgiving when Elias said we needed a #3+ SP and there was a 50 pg thread here saying that Wells/Irvin weren’t SP.

We’d have to give Lorenzen a two year deal likely because of the threat of him having to go to the bullpen. I’m not against having him in the pen next year at $8-10 million. I’ve been saying that’s essentially what David Robertson makes to be a RH set up man. 

Lorenzen would be a two bird with one stone move. Depth for the rotation. Kicks Wells to the pen to help sure that up. If Bradish and/or Means comes back then we could have Lorenzen and Wells in MR/SU isn’t the worst thing. 

Edited March 7 by sportsfan8703