5-4 Start not horrible but should be better

[glenn__davis]

As a Vikings fan I hate to quote Aaron Rodgers but...

R-E-L-A-X.

Our opponents are (obviously) 4-5 against us.

Against other teams the Angels are 4-2, the Royals are 5-2, and the Pirates are 6-1, for a total of 15-5.  I think the bigger takeaway is that this "easy" start to the season is going to end up being more difficult than we had expected.  The Royals and Pirates in particular look much improved.

Long way to go fellas.  We'll have times where we look great and times where we look like terrible.  Settle in for the ride!

[HowAbout That]

5 hours ago, Malike said:

Nothing like a healthy dose of hyperbole from you. You are a real contributor to the board and I'm glad you are here for your incredibly detailed perspective.

Well……it IS true. The minor league guys may have problems with ML pitchers? but the major league guys DO have problems with ML pitchers.

A very strong argument can be made to replace Hays/Urias/Kemp/Mateo.

 

[Safelykept]

32 minutes ago, DirtyBird said:

I’m trading Urias for whatever we can get and DFA’ing Kemp. I like Mateo on the roster.

I’d probably promote two of Stowers, Norby, Holliday. Cut Mullins, Hays each back to about 100 starts. Cut Santander back to about 120 and cut Adley DH starts in half. 

Hays is working himself into a platoon with Cowser Yes. Holliday for Kemp yes. Why would you cut Santander to 120 (Who takes the those 42 starts who takes Mullins missing 62 starts (norby Stowers?what does Adley do when he does not DH play catcher> absolutely laughable. 

[DirtyBird]

5 minutes ago, Safelykept said:

Hays is working himself into a platoon with Cowser Yes. Holliday for Kemp yes. Why would you cut Santander to 120 (Who takes the those 42 starts who takes Mullins missing 62 starts (norby Stowers?what does Adley do when he does not DH play catcher> absolutely laughable. 

Why would I cut Santander’s starts? To keep him fresh, and he has shown to perform well coming off of off days. And it allows to get Coswer/Stowers AB’s who can both play RF. He’s a nice player. He doesn’t need to be an everyday player.

Cowser should get a good chunk of the Mullins starts, Hays could get some, maybe Mateo if he can handle the spot.

Cutting Adley DH games in half would be reducing his starts by about 20. This would keep him fresh.

Having Adley or Santander on the bench also provides a switch hitting option for late game situations.

We have to be able to incorporate prospects into the major league team. And we don’t have anybody on the roster who is above giving up a little playing time to allow that to happen.

[OnlyOneOriole]

5 hours ago, Gofannon said:

Can either you or DirtyBird say what you'd do with Mullins and Hays?  I am assuming you're releasing Urias and Mateo?

I'm not arguing for the status quo, by the way.  I'm just wondering what the people who want to blow it up completely after a week and a half see as the moves to be made.

Good question and thanks for keeping it about baseball.

 

IMO you keep Mullins. as a bench replacement  Trade Hays for whatever. 

 

The NFL, for all of its faults.  Has it right.   I mean the Texans just got one of the best WR's in football for a 2nd round pick.  And WR in the NFL is a very coveted position.  The Bears got keenan Allen again a great WR, for next to nothing.

 

Home town fans always over rate their own guys.  Hays is worth next to nothing.  Neither is Mullins.  Maybe a single A pitcher or a PTBNL.

 

All they are doing is blocking guys who can possibly hit now....and later.  When the Os can win a WS.  Guys like Hays and Mateo don't do anything now, and they sure as heck won't do anything later.

 

 

[Safelykept]

8 hours ago, DirtyBird said:

Why would I cut Santander’s starts? To keep him fresh, and he has shown to perform well coming off of off days. And it allows to get Coswer/Stowers AB’s who can both play RF. He’s a nice player. He doesn’t need to be an everyday player.

Cowser should get a good chunk of the Mullins starts, Hays could get some, maybe Mateo if he can handle the spot.

Cutting Adley DH games in half would be reducing his starts by about 20. This would keep him fresh.

Having Adley or Santander on the bench also provides a switch hitting option for late game situations.

We have to be able to incorporate prospects into the major league team. And we don’t have anybody on the roster who is above giving up a little playing time to allow that to happen.

They are incorporating prospects into the line Cowser is gong to ABs from Hayes Holliday will be along in time, and you still did not say where Norby fits Or Stowers, Gunner is above sharing ABs and so is Adley. Adley was on the bench for 8 games last year, youre advocating another 20, are you just trolling here, you believe there going to have Adley Start 30 games on the bench?

[Sports Guy]

6 hours ago, OnlyOneOriole said:

Good question and thanks for keeping it about baseball.

 

IMO you keep Mullins. as a bench replacement  Trade Hays for whatever. 

 

The NFL, for all of its faults.  Has it right.   I mean the Texans just got one of the best WR's in football for a 2nd round pick.  And WR in the NFL is a very coveted position.  The Bears got keenan Allen again a great WR, for next to nothing.

 

Home town fans always over rate their own guys.  Hays is worth next to nothing.  Neither is Mullins.  Maybe a single A pitcher or a PTBNL.

 

All they are doing is blocking guys who can possibly hit now....and later.  When the Os can win a WS.  Guys like Hays and Mateo don't do anything now, and they sure as heck won't do anything later.

 

 

There is nothing in this post that makes sense.

First of all, Diggs is a fading WR on a big contract. That is a huge factor in his value.  Same with Allen. 
 

Secondly, all WS teams have players like Hays on them. I’m not as big a Hays fans as some and yes, he looks terrible early on but he is clearly better than a lot of guys that have gotten significant at bats for WS winning teams. Acting as if he is standing in the way of us winning is over the top.

You don’t just bench Mullins (especially when you don’t have a great option for CF.  And you don’t just get rid of Hays for some random single A arm.

I want the young kids up here as much as anyone but doing stupid things to force it makes no sense.

[Moose Milligan]

14 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

There is nothing in this post that makes sense.

First of all, Diggs is a fading WR on a big contract. That is a huge factor in his value.  Same with Allen. 
 

Secondly, all WS teams have players like Hays on them. I’m not as big a Hays fans as some and yes, he looks terrible early on but he is clearly better than a lot of guys that have gotten significant at bats for WS winning teams. Acting as if he is standing in the way of us winning is over the top.

You don’t just bench Mullins (especially when you don’t have a great option for CF.  And you don’t just get rid of Hays for some random single A arm.

I want the young kids up here as much as anyone but doing stupid things to force it makes no sense.

He wanted to keep it about baseball then took it right to football 

[DirtyBird]

55 minutes ago, Safelykept said:

you still did not say where Norby fits Or Stowers, 

If LF, RF and DH spots opened up, as I stated, they would fit there. I don't think there is more than 1 spot that management would open in the near future outside of Kemp. So, I don't think there would be space for both Norby and Stowers without an injury, assuming Holliday is promoted.

[Sports Guy]

9 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

He wanted to keep it about baseball then took it right to football 

It was a poorly done analogy too. I guess his point was that in the NFL, good players will be traded for what is perceived to be a low return compared to production.

The problem with the analogy is that it ignores so many factors like salary cap (huge factor) and cap hits. Those are monstrous in the NFL world. 

[Moose Milligan]

Just now, Sports Guy said:

It was a poorly done analogy too. I guess his point was that in the NFL, good players will be traded for what is perceived to be a low return compared to production.

The problem with the analogy is that it ignores so many factors like salary cap (huge factor) and cap hits. Those are monstrous in the NFL world. 

Correct.

I don't disagree that Hays should be traded for "whatever".  But I'd like to see him gone if that means giving more at bats to Cowser, or Stowers, Kjerstad, etc.

 

[Moshagge3]

6 hours ago, OnlyOneOriole said:

Good question and thanks for keeping it about baseball.

 

IMO you keep Mullins. as a bench replacement  Trade Hays for whatever. 

 

The NFL, for all of its faults.  Has it right.   I mean the Texans just got one of the best WR's in football for a 2nd round pick.  And WR in the NFL is a very coveted position.  The Bears got keenan Allen again a great WR, for next to nothing.

 

Home town fans always over rate their own guys.  Hays is worth next to nothing.  Neither is Mullins.  Maybe a single A pitcher or a PTBNL.

 

All they are doing is blocking guys who can possibly hit now....and later.  When the Os can win a WS.  Guys like Hays and Mateo don't do anything now, and they sure as heck won't do anything later.

 

 

If you want to make the NFL comparison, okay. In NFL terms, the Orioles have played 1 game out of a 17 game season. (And they won it.) Are NFL teams routinely cutting established players after the first game of the season?

[Bemorewins]

10 hours ago, DirtyBird said:

Why would I cut Santander’s starts? To keep him fresh, and he has shown to perform well coming off of off days. And it allows to get Coswer/Stowers AB’s who can both play RF. He’s a nice player. He doesn’t need to be an everyday player.

Cowser should get a good chunk of the Mullins starts, Hays could get some, maybe Mateo if he can handle the spot.

Cutting Adley DH games in half would be reducing his starts by about 20. This would keep him fresh.

Having Adley or Santander on the bench also provides a switch hitting option for late game situations.

We have to be able to incorporate prospects into the major league team. And we don’t have anybody on the roster who is above giving up a little playing time to allow that to happen.

I appreciate the desire to do something different in order to shake things up so that we can get it going offensively.

But quick question - If the young guys that you are advocating for struggle to produce right away (i.e. go through the acclimating struggles that we’ve seen all of our young guys go through including our most talented players), what do we do then?

I’m just as frustrated as anyone watching Mullins, Hays, and Urias have so many poor/uncompetitive ABs. But I don’t believe that it’s a certainty that guys at AAA will replace them and immediately rake. And if they don’t, then what? I’m not sure you could then go back to the vets as that would be no good for either set of players (youth or vets). 

If we make whole sale changing in the favor of playing all your and living with results (good or bad), that seems like a philosophy that is still very much along the lines of a rebuild. No? 

With the clock ticking on Adley, Gunnar, and Grayson, how long do you think that we should stay with this approach (rebuild - going cheap and young and living with the volatility of outcomes that come from playing many young players who are all adjusting at once)?

[DirtyBird]

4 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

I appreciate the desire to do something different in order to shake things up so that we can get it going offensively.

But quick question - If the young guys that you are advocating for struggle to produce right away (i.e. go through the acclimating struggles that we’ve seen all of our young guys go through including our most talented players), what do we do then?

I’m just as frustrated as anyone watching Mullins, Hays, and Urias have so many poor/uncompetitive ABs. But I don’t believe that it’s a certainty that guys at AAA will replace them and immediately rake. And if they don’t, then what? I’m not sure you could then go back to the vets as that would be no good for either set of players (youth or vets). 

Mullins and Hays would still be getting 100 starts, appx 2/3rds of the games. 

[Pat Kelly]

If the goal is to get into the playoffs vs win the Division then I guess the Os will be fine.    

On the ML team perhaps we can agree there are six first division staters (Adley, Gunnar, Ryan, Santander, Mullins, O’Hearn (DH)).  

We are arguably missing an everyday RF, 2B (if we consider JW the answer at 3B) and RH DH. We have two emerging four/five tool WIP prospects (Westburg, Cowser) and five single skill /quasi limited players (Hays, Mateo, Urias, Kemp, McCann). 

There are holes on ML team, not to mention needs in the BP.  My issue is that I am not clear on Elias’ strategy or plan to solve this given the presence  of five ready/close to ready top /elite players in Norfolk.   Is he willing to roll the dice and lose more games then projected or is everything meeting the plan?

Edited April 8 by Pat Kelly