How much do we REALLY lose(and what do we gain) by replacing Urias at 3b with Mayo...or Norby going to 2b...and Westy back to 3B?

[Roy Firestone]

52 minutes ago, interloper said:

Timing is a bit odd for this considering we don't win last night's game without superb defense the whole night, but sure. 

I think we all would like to see Mayo find some way to fit on this team. I'm not sure right now is the time? Urias is a steady hand and I think they value that. 

I also think they are much more worried about figuring out how this pitching staff shakes out with all these upcoming moves. I like having Urias here to provide these returning guys with some steady defense behind them. 

I didn't think the Oriole offense exactly lit it up last night...and who is to say Mayo or Norby COULDN'T have made the plays too..

[SouthRider]

I can see the Orioles being gun shy due to Holliday's struggles.  The thing is, maybe 1 in 5 top prospects come into the majors and hit right away.  The O's have so many guys on the cusp try them all.  One is bound to start off hot.  

[Matt Bennett]

35 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

 Nothing is broken right now, why are we trying to invent things to fix.

Urias is pretty broken. 

I guess he deserves some time to get it together. But the clock’s ticking. Don’t really fault Roy for salivating at a couple AAA infielders who are doing well. 

[Bemorewins]

1 minute ago, RVAOsFan said:

Oh yea, Norby #1 Fanboy here, I will own that.  I also believe if he comes up and succeeds he will have no problem sticking around.  He has been getting a lot of playing time in AAA playing corner outfield.  If you look at the current lineup we are running out against LHP, you wouldn't prefer Norby on the roster to McKenna? When Hays comes back you can move someone like Urias.  What I am saying is now is the time to get a look at him without having to lose someone, take advantage of it.  Heck, at least if he was up now instead of Kjerstad he would be valuable against LHP, Kjerstad isn't getting any playing time against RHP or LHP. 

Again I respect your affinity for the player.

But to answer your question - No, I would not want Norby on the roster in McKenna's place. I don't see how that is a good use of a prospect's value and development to use them as the 26th man. Ideally you want guys you believe have talent to play.

I believe that Norby has a future as a big leaguer and has earned a call up. I just don't see that place being here, given how stacked this lineup is and will be for years to come.

I think it makes more sense to use Norby as a trade chip for a piece that we will need on the big league team to help us complete the championship picture puzzle (like say an effective reliever).

Lastly, I think Kjerstad is not going to rot the bench for long. There is really no place for him to play now and they will likely send him back to AAA soon. However, next season when Santander is gone and possibly O'Hearn is not here. That is when Kjerstad will have a spot opened up for him. There is also, the possibility that he may be traded around the deadline as well.

[Frobby]

10 minutes ago, Roy Firestone said:

 

And Mayo's strike out and chase rate are both lower than most MLB hitters..In fact, he's NOT a strikeout machine. He doesn't overswing and has a good eye.

He’s not a strikeout machine, but it’s incorrect to say his strikeout rate is lower than most MLB hitters.  He’s struck out 27.4% of the time, and major league average is 22.4%.   Needless to say, his K rate is likely to increase against major league pitching.  But I don’t think that’s what’s holding him back.  It’s defense.  

[LarryBigbie]

59 minutes ago, Fiver6565 said:

Give me the defense Urias provides over the growing pains of either Norby or Mayo at the big league level, right now at least.  Mayo is just 21, the rush to get him up is not really there.  Have we learned nothing from the Holliday situation?  We don't want to bring up another younger than usual prospect and have him flailing up here, all while providing below average defense.  Its just not a good idea.

Why is Urias (or Mateo) batting ninth so bad in this lineup?  The lineup is strong - one relatively weak bat at the bottom is not going to kill this team, especially while that player is providing value on defense.

People are like cats, always distracted by the shiny new object.  Lets roll with what we've got for a bit (position player wise), because its pretty damn good.

Forgive me if this has already mentioned as I read through the thread - but this is a great point.

Look at the Dodgers for example. Every night they are rolling out the likes of a Miguel Rojas, Chris Taylor, or Kike Hernandez.

We are in a great spot to allow guys to develop as necessary and be as "MLB Ready" as possible when they debut. Not sure what the return for a Urias would be, but playing high level defense and being competent at the plate isn't the worst thing to advertise on a nightly basis either. He could definitely be another "chip" packaged with prospect(s) to net the return we want and need for the push.  

Edited April 30 by LarryBigbie

[Bemorewins]

5 minutes ago, Matt Bennett said:

Urias is pretty broken. 

I guess he deserves some time to get it together. But the clock’s ticking. Don’t really fault Roy for salivating at a couple AAA infielders who are doing well. 

I'm not saying that Urias is a good or even decent offensive player. But what I am saying is that given the defense that he brings and the rest of our other 8 offensive players (especially against RH pitching), we really don't need an offensive boost right now.

Didn't we just salivate over Holliday and Kjerstad? And that is not to say that both won't be wonderful major leaguers in time. But it is to say, that it is not very likely that guys make the jump from AAA to MLB and right away start out performing capable major leaguers.

I believe (along with MANY talent evaluators throughout the sport) that Jackson Holliday is our most talented prospect. And he struggled mightily is his brief major league stint. The jump from AAA to the Bigs is a substantial one in 2024. The thought that these top prospects gaudy offensive numbers (put up at AAA) will have some kind of direct/immediate carryover is probably not very realistic.

[AlbNYfan]

There's more to it than just an error (s). How many extra pitches do the starters have to make because of below average fielding. Talk to a pitcher that has a couple on base and an infielder botches an easy double play. Mentally, a pitcher has to be more relaxed out there knowing he doesn't need a K to get someone out. In the 60's there was a Yankee 3rd baseman named Hector Lopez...the refrain on him was "knock in 3, let in 4."

I have no trouble with Mateo on the team. Urias really seems lost, and I believe he needs to be more of an everyday player to be successful. It's not happening here.. And McKenna (the luckiest man around), has no place on this team either IMO.

[Three Run Homer]

49 minutes ago, deward said:

I think either one would be a far better use of Kjerstad's spot on the bench.

Sad but true.  The O's could use another right handed bat for matchups.   I thought they should have called up Norby to replace Hays in the first place, and I still think that.  

[RVAOsFan]

9 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

Again I respect your affinity for the player.

But to answer your question - No, I would not want Norby on the roster in McKenna's place. I don't see how that is a good use of a prospect's value and development to use them as the 26th man. Ideally you want guys you believe have talent to play.

I believe that Norby has a future as a big leaguer and has earned a call up. I just don't see that place being here, given how stacked this lineup is and will be for years to come.

I think it makes more sense to use Norby as a trade chip for a piece that we will need on the big league team to help us complete the championship picture puzzle (like say an effective reliever).

Lastly, I think Kjerstad is not going to rot the bench for long. There is really no place for him to play now and they will likely send him back to AAA soon. However, next season when Santander is gone and possibly O'Hearn is not here. That is when Kjerstad will have a spot opened up for him. There is also, the possibility that he may be traded around the deadline as well.

I am not trying to go back and forth with you here, this is nothing personal.  The points you make I just feel like there are counter arguments to why it does make sense for Norby to get a look right now, that's all. 

- He has 700? plate appearances at AAA, I think we are past worrying about developing.

- This is a stacked lineup but there are still positions of the future that have not been locked down and there currently injuries opening spots for prospects to get opportunities. 

- Bringing Norby up and sending him down again does not hurt his prospect value (see Joey Ortiz)

- Finding out now that Norby can hit big league pitching could make Elias more comfortable trading away a Urias or Hays at the deadline or sooner knowing Norby can slide in.

[Three Run Homer]

34 minutes ago, Satyr3206 said:

I am with Roy on this one. Urias and Mateo can go. I honestly think Mayo will adjust quickly and be a force. The guy is a Professional hitter. Might end up being better than Holliday.

Don't know why this post got a "laugh".  Mayo is a highly regarded, bat first prospect.  There's a decent chance that he ends up being a better hitter in his career than Holliday, even if Holliday winds up being a better player overall due to his defensive value.  

[Malike]

42 minutes ago, Roy Firestone said:

 

And Mayo's strike out and chase rate are both lower than most MLB hitters..In fact, he's NOT a strikeout machine. He doesn't overswing and has a good eye.

Holliday had an absolutely elite eye and plate discipline in the MiL. He walked as much as he struck out. We've seen that ML pitching can make "phenoms" in the minors look awful. I don't expect Mayo to walk in an kick the door down from the get-go.

[yayterps]

1 minute ago, Malike said:

Holliday had an absolutely elite eye and plate discipline in the MiL. He walked as much as he struck out. We've seen that ML pitching can make "phenoms" in the minors look awful. I don't expect Mayo to walk in an kick the door down from the get-go.

or the inconsistent strike zone of MLB umps

[Satyr3206]

Only one way to find out. Call him up.

[Bemorewins]

3 minutes ago, Malike said:

Holliday had an absolutely elite eye and plate discipline in the MiL. He walked as much as he struck out. We've seen that ML pitching can make "phenoms" in the minors look awful. I don't expect Mayo to walk in an kick the door down from the get-go.

I wish more people/posters/fans would acknowledge this. The jump in competition in 2024 from AAA to the Majors is probably bigger than it's been in a long long time.