Excellent Meoli article on Zach Fruit's deveopment

[Frobby]

Jon Meoli has a great article up in the Banner today, focusing on Zach Fruit (2023 9th rounder) and an example of the Orioles' drafting and development processes.   Fruit has gone from being a two-pitch pitcher when drafted to a five-pitch pitcher 5 months after his first spring training. Here's a few quotes:

Holt said: “You can go look for the best player on the board or look for the best fit on what you can develop. I think we’re very clear on what we value. It doesn’t always necessarily mean a guy who’s a high-profile guy. We have a way of evaluating things on a very baseline level that allows us to zero in on who we like and why.”

* * *

Early on [after joining the O's, Fruit] added a four-seam fastball to pair with his two-seamer. Using what’s called a Clean Fuego ball, a training tool that’s basically a baseball with two flat sides and provides immediate feedback on spin direction, he was able to add a riding fastball that plays up in the strike zone alongside his horizontal two-seamer.

He also found a grip that worked with his changeup, using a one-seam grip that helped the pitch generate deep fade out of his hand in a way he’d never accomplished before. That spring training work with Jordie Henry, Aberdeen’s pitching coach, and Andy Sadoski, the pitching coach at Delmarva, took the organization by surprise.

“Every time he threw a changeup off the mound in spring training, we were able to take a look at it, see the movement on TrackMan, see how it’s coming off his fingertips in slow motion on the video, be able to make adjustments from pitch to pitch to really perfect how that ball is coming out of his hand, perfect how that ball is spinning on the way to home plate,” Sadoski said. “We’ve seen that movement increase quite a bit here in a short period of time.”

Henry said: “We went pretty hard into some pitch design things that went very, very quickly for him.”

Recognizing a “massive step forward” with Fruit’s changeup and his four-seamer, Herrmann said, the work shifted to further solidifying the curveball and creating distinctions between the two-seam fastball and the four-seam. For that, they looked at the characteristics and movement of Bradish’s sinker to “help him expedite the learning of that pitch” based on how Bradish developed and throws it,” Herrmann said.

* * *

“I think it’s possible with having really good tools, evaluation tools, and for sort of everyone being on the same page as to what is good and what is doable, essentially,” vice president of player development and domestic scouting Matt Blood said. “What is workable? What can be improved? And know exactly where to go and how. So you’ve got to have really good tools to use, really good information, and you have to have really good people who know to use that information and impact change on the player.”

[Sports Guy]

Thanks for posting this.  Saw this referenced on twitter but haven’t read it yet because I stupidly went down the rabbit hole of arguing with an awful Os fan.

[Sports Guy]

What a massive difference this org is under Elias and his team.  

[Say O!]

Thx for posting — Fascinating read on techniques and measurements used in today’s “pitching lab.”

Here was Longenhagen write up on Fruit from his top Os prospect fangraphs piece from last week.

[Frobby]

2 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Thanks for posting this.  Saw this referenced on twitter but haven’t read it yet because I stupidly went down the rabbit hole of arguing with an awful Os fan.

I got a cheap 6 months/$6 subscription to the Banner, and really like their Orioles coverage and especially Meoli’s minor league and developmental stuff.  Honestly, I don’t read it as often as I should.  

[Can_of_corn]

6 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Thanks for posting this.  Saw this referenced on twitter but haven’t read it yet because I stupidly went down the rabbit hole of arguing with an awful Os fan.

You have dual accounts there?

[Can_of_corn]

5 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

What a massive difference this org is under Elias and his team.  

To be fair to the rest of the league lots of other teams are right there with them.

It is nice to not be behind.

[glenn__davis]

It's interesting, I've seen multiple references now about the Orioles becoming a pitching factory in terms of development.  We've yet to see the fruits of that at the MLB level.  I think the next 2-3 years will tell a lot about where we're at there.

[sportsfan8703]

15 minutes ago, glenn__davis said:

It's interesting, I've seen multiple references now about the Orioles becoming a pitching factory in terms of development.  We've yet to see the fruits of that at the MLB level.  I think the next 2-3 years will tell a lot about where we're at there.

We did a pretty good job getting Bradish to near Ace level.  Voth and Watkins for a bit.  The waiver wire relievers as well.  We didn't draft pitching for a bit so we've really only had this season to see what they were targetting in the draft and how they were developing it.  Forret and Fruit are good examples so far.  

[Tony-OH]

3 hours ago, Frobby said:

Holt said: “You can go look for the best player on the board or look for the best fit on what you can develop. I think we’re very clear on what we value. It doesn’t always necessarily mean a guy who’s a high-profile guy. We have a way of evaluating things on a very baseline level that allows us to zero in on who we like and why.”

It's been 5 drafts, coming up on their 6th, and they not only have never drafted and developed a pitcher yet, they don't have one in the top ten of their prospects. 

I know it's not popular to question the Orioles on here, but the results matter, not words. Holt, Elias and his scouts can start spiking footballs and celebrating when their system of identifying and developing pitchers bears fruits at the major league level.

Call me unimpressed at this point and a fluff piece on a 24-year old guy, with a 3.90 ERA in High-A ball, who right-handers slash .285/.356/.486/.842 against, is not going to change my mind. 

Forrett now is a guy with some impressive pitches, youth, and ability that could be something to get "excited" over.

The facts are this, the Orioles have shown zero ability to identify and/or develop impact pitching talent in 5-years of drafting. I mean, not even a reliever of use. Nothing, nada. Their best pitching prospects at the upper levels are guys they traded for.

Whatever system they are using needs to be scrapped or at the very least, re-evaluated. 

 

 

[OriolesUpAndDowns]

The lack of even a reliever is kind of telling.  

[Rbiggs2525]

24 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

It's been 5 drafts, coming up on their 6th, and they not only have never drafted and developed a pitcher yet, they don't have one in the top ten of their prospects. 

I know it's not popular to question the Orioles on here, but the results matter, not words. Holt, Elias and his scouts can start spiking footballs and celebrating when their system of identifying and developing pitchers bears fruits at the major league level.

Call me unimpressed at this point and a fluff piece on a 24-year old guy, with a 3.90 ERA in High-A ball, who right-handers slash .285/.356/.486/.842 against, is not going to change my mind. 

Forrett now is a guy with some impressive pitches, youth, and ability that could be something to get "excited" over.

The facts are this, the Orioles have shown zero ability to identify and/or develop impact pitching talent in 5-years of drafting. I mean, not even a reliever of use. Nothing, nada. Their best pitching prospects at the upper levels are guys they traded for.

Whatever system they are using needs to be scrapped or at the very least, re-evaluated. 

 

 

100 percent agree. Reminds me under the end of MacPhail and throughout Duquette era where we were developing hitters that couldn’t get on base. It is interesting to see the Astros pitching help came through trades and international guys. Garcia, Framber, Javier, Bryan Abreu. 

[btdart20]

3 hours ago, glenn__davis said:

It's interesting, I've seen multiple references now about the Orioles becoming a pitching factory in terms of development.  We've yet to see the fruits of that at the MLB level.  I think the next 2-3 years will tell a lot about where we're at there.

I figured this year would be a bit of a coming out party for our pitcher development.  Not at the MLB level but on the national prospect media cred-o-meter. 

[btdart20]

1 hour ago, Tony-OH said:

It's been 5 drafts, coming up on their 6th, and they not only have never drafted and developed a pitcher yet, they don't have one in the top ten of their prospects. 

I know it's not popular to question the Orioles on here, but the results matter, not words. Holt, Elias and his scouts can start spiking footballs and celebrating when their system of identifying and developing pitchers bears fruits at the major league level.

Call me unimpressed at this point and a fluff piece on a 24-year old guy, with a 3.90 ERA in High-A ball, who right-handers slash .285/.356/.486/.842 against, is not going to change my mind. 

Forrett now is a guy with some impressive pitches, youth, and ability that could be something to get "excited" over.

The facts are this, the Orioles have shown zero ability to identify and/or develop impact pitching talent in 5-years of drafting. I mean, not even a reliever of use. Nothing, nada. Their best pitching prospects at the upper levels are guys they traded for.

Whatever system they are using needs to be scrapped or at the very least, re-evaluated. 

 

 

A bit of a counter is having 3 #1 (a/b/c) in the org.  Povich (at least) would be top 10 in most orgs.

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, Tony-OH said:

It's been 5 drafts, coming up on their 6th, and they not only have never drafted and developed a pitcher yet, they don't have one in the top ten of their prospects. 

I know it's not popular to question the Orioles on here, but the results matter, not words. Holt, Elias and his scouts can start spiking footballs and celebrating when their system of identifying and developing pitchers bears fruits at the major league level.

Call me unimpressed at this point and a fluff piece on a 24-year old guy, with a 3.90 ERA in High-A ball, who right-handers slash .285/.356/.486/.842 against, is not going to change my mind. 

Forrett now is a guy with some impressive pitches, youth, and ability that could be something to get "excited" over.

The facts are this, the Orioles have shown zero ability to identify and/or develop impact pitching talent in 5-years of drafting. I mean, not even a reliever of use. Nothing, nada. Their best pitching prospects at the upper levels are guys they traded for.

Whatever system they are using needs to be scrapped or at the very least, re-evaluated. 

 

 

To be fair, last year was the first time they really drafted many pitchers in the first 10 rounds.

2019 - none until 8th round 

2020 -only Baumler, who got hurt

2021 - only Tavera before 11th tound

2022 - couldn’t sign McLean, highest signee was Bright (5th round).  Did also take pitchers in rounds 7, 8, 10.

2023 - much heavier on pitching

Now, you could say that (1) deferring on picking pitchers was a bad strategy, or (2) they claim they can get pitchers with the traits they like in the later rounds, but where’s the proof?  Those are defensible points, but given the overall success of the team (including above average pitching the last two years), I’m certainly not ready to say the strategy was wrong.  As to proof they can succeed with guys picked in lower rounds, I agree it’s not there yet.  But I’ve seen some outside observers (Longenhagen, Sarris) who seem to think they’re headed in a good direction.  So, I’ll be patient.   It stands to reason that guys picked in later rounds may take longer to develop than early round picks.