Pie continues to impress

[Frobby]

It's still premature to conclude that Pie is a better fielder than Jones.

Pie's defensive work in CF last year was better than Jones' in 2009, obviously, but I think Jones' work in 2008 was better than Pie's defense last year. Jones clearly should be given every chance to prove last year's poor defensive year was a fluke. If in July or August he's still playing at about his level of last year, then you make the move. But its clearly the right move to give Jones the CF job to start the year.

I generally agree -- unless Jones looks really bad defensively this spring for some reason, which I doubt.

[Sanfran327]

You are right, you will never see Pie batting 9th behind Izturis because it doesn't make sense to have a batter as weak as Izturis hitting ahead of a pretty good hitter like Pie.

I also agree you won't seen Jones in LF with Pie in CF unless something really drastic happens.

It worked pretty well for the Brewers when they moved their P to the 8th spot and a "real" hitter in the 9th spot.

Then again, they were the only team that did it, and it was basically their choice as to when they wanted to kill their rally.

The more I think about it, you're right. Tejada is likely to reach base a fair amount this season, and I don't want to waste that with Izturis hitting behind him. But at the same time, I really like Pie, Roberts, Markakis going 9-1-2. Just goes to show how important is is to have a lineup with no weaknesses.

[Sanfran327]

It's still premature to conclude that Pie is a better fielder than Jones.

Pie's defensive work in CF last year was better than Jones' in 2009, obviously, but I think Jones' work in 2008 was better than Pie's defense last year. Jones clearly should be given every chance to prove last year's poor defensive year was a fluke. If in July or August he's still playing at about his level of last year, then you make the move. But its clearly the right move to give Jones the CF job to start the year.

Whatever the reason, and call it what you want, the bottom line is that we have four starting-caliber OFers on this team, one of which is CLEARLY a weaker defender than the other three, yet he's starting in left field this year.

I agree that you don't want to "piss off" your talented players by "demoting them to a lesser position" (not your words, just echoed previous sentiments from around the board when we've been on this topic before). But you also hope that since (if) AJ is going to be a team leader, he will not have a problem helping this team become better by allowing Trembley to assemble the best possible lineup, regardless of where he is aligned defensively or in the batting order.

[Dr. FLK]

Pie is one of the story lines that I find most intriguing this season. He has times where you can just see he's overflowing with raw ability - both offensively and defensively. But, he's also had some times where you can see he doesn't always keep his head in the game (most notable on the base paths). If they develop him into a consistent player, I think he's going to be really good. I think Jones is a safer bet to be a really good player, but I still believe Pie has a higher ceiling than Jones. It's going to fun to see how he does and how much PT he earns this year.

[VTmook213]

What I mean is that I think Markakis will be the best of the three. I think Nick can have some .950 OPS seasons as he adds power. 1.000 OPS may be a stretch.

Not that I wouldn't love to see this happen, but I wonder how realistic it is to see Nick put up an OPS of .950+. I see it mentioned a lot on the boards that people expect Nick to have an OPS of .900+ on a regular basis. I always just kind of nodded along, because sure, I have faith in Nick and think he's going to keep improving. One day I went to look at how that would've measured up to the rest of the league and noticed that:

In 2009, there were only 27 players with an OPS of .900 or higher. If we waaaaaaaaaay over simplify how many batters each team uses (just assuming that each team uses the same player at each position every single game, so that there are 14*9 batters in the AL and 16*8 in the NL), batting over .900 would put you in the top 10% of batters in all of baseball. Do I think Nick can do this? Absolutely. With all the talk on OH of how that's what Nick should be putting up on a regular basis, I had never realized how few players actually reach that threshhold. For me, at least, it was eye opening.

As for batting .950+ ... only 8 players did that (3%), and only 3 players were over .1000 (1%) last year. That'd be crazy impressive if Nick were able to hit over .950!

Yes, I only looked at 2009. I'm lazy.

[mark_beckens]

Moving Markakis to first is such a waste of his arm...the man continually has good showings in outfield assists year after year. I would have no problem with Reimold making the switch, however.

Agreed, moving your best defensive OF'er to 1st base just isn't smart.

[Frobby]

Not that I wouldn't love to see this happen, but I wonder how realistic it is to see Nick put up an OPS of .950+. I see it mentioned a lot on the boards that people expect Nick to have an OPS of .900+ on a regular basis. I always just kind of nodded along, because sure, I have faith in Nick and think he's going to keep improving. One day I went to look at how that would've measured up to the rest of the league and noticed that:

In 2009, there were only 27 players with an OPS of .900 or higher. If we waaaaaaaaaay over simplify how many batters each team uses (just assuming that each team uses the same player at each position every single game, so that there are 14*9 batters in the AL and 16*8 in the NL), batting over .900 would put you in the top 10% of batters in all of baseball. Do I think Nick can do this? Absolutely. With all the talk on OH of how that's what Nick should be putting up on a regular basis, I had never realized how few players actually reach that threshhold. For me, at least, it was eye opening.

As for batting .950+ ... only 8 players did that (3%), and only 3 players were over .1000 (1%) last year. That'd be crazy impressive if Nick were able to hit over .950!

Yes, I only looked at 2009. I'm lazy.

I'm not saying I think Nick can have an OPS of .900+ on a regular basis, but I think some .950+ seasons could occur. Put it this way, I'm pretty sure Nick will have a couple of years in his career where he hits close to .320, and I'm pretty sure he will have some years where he hits 25-27 HR or more. Combine those and you are probably looking at .950+ OPS.

[DrungoHazewood]

Frobby, "potential" to me is something that hasn't yet happened, but could. In baseball, it would be an unrealized ceiling.

Do you believe that Markakis has significantly more in him than he has showed already? His 09 makes me wonder whether 08 is close to the best we can expect. I hasten to add that I would be happy with another seven or eight seasons at his 08 level, maybe a slight bump up for a career year.

But significantly better than he was in 08? I have my doubts.

I think Nick has shown bursts of much more power than he's been able to consistently produce. I'm thinking of his three-homer game and his monster blast in Detroit last year. I think it's plausible that he takes a step forward and becomes a consistent 30+ homer guy, maybe even with occasional excursions to 40 or more.

Still don't think Pie makes it as a MLB starter on this team. Maybe he will bat enough to be in a platoon CFer on some other team. I just don't see it.

An average MLB center fielder had a .749 OPS in 2009. Pie is probably a better-than average fielding center fielder. He only has to put up a .700-ish OPS to be an asset as a full-time starter on a good team. I don't see why you think that's implausible, or unlikely. Or why you want to limit him to only part-time duty when he only has a smattering of at bats against lefties.

It's still premature to conclude that Pie is a better fielder than Jones.

Pie's defensive work in CF last year was better than Jones' in 2009, obviously, but I think Jones' work in 2008 was better than Pie's defense last year. Jones clearly should be given every chance to prove last year's poor defensive year was a fluke. If in July or August he's still playing at about his level of last year, then you make the move. But its clearly the right move to give Jones the CF job to start the year.

It's still very much up in the air whether Jones is an ok/good/great defensive center fielder. Definitely too early to move him to left field.

[mark_beckens]

I'm just glad the O's FO didn't listen to all those here who were calling for him to be released last season, when he started slowly. He just needs/needed playing time. IMO, he should be in the lineup everyday against RH pitchers, but that is going to be tough with Scott being the DH. Would take alot of AB's away from Riemold.

[VThokie7]

This is quite misleading. Jones was a centerfielder in the minor leagues and until last year, his defense rapidly improved every year since he was converted from short. He just happened to get a couple of cups of coffee in the organization that has friggin' Ichiro in center.

Ichiro actually plays RF. I don't remember him EVER playing CF since coming to the states.

[colorado_oriole]

Once and for all NR is going to be our LF with Pie filling in. NR is a good outfielder but based on his injury last year limited him on what he could do. We haven't even seen sweet Lou out there yet. I mean lets not get to excited shall we he has been hitting softballs down the middle for gods sake.

[PaulFolk]

Ichiro actually plays RF. I don't remember him EVER playing CF since coming to the states.

He was the Mariners' regular CF for the entire 2007 season, playing 155 games there. He has played 266 games total in CF in the majors.

He is back in RF now, though.

[Can_of_corn]

Whatever the reason, and call it what you want, the bottom line is that we have four starting-caliber OFers on this team, one of which is CLEARLY a weaker defender than the other three, yet he's starting in left field this year.

Don't you think the sample size for two, maybe three of those players is a wee bit small to be making blanket statements?

Pie has had one month of his major league career with an OPS over .800 and more then 16 at bats. Jones has only been an offensive force for a half a season over 2+ years. Reimold was learning a new position on the fly and fighting a leg injury that ended his season with surgery.

[LookinUp]

Perhaps lost in the Pie/Jones/Reimold/Markakis/Scott OF/1B/DH situation is the fact that the Orioles have an abundance of immensely talented young players....something we should be elated about instead of arguing where they will play. Unlike some others here, I am willing to suggest that the Orioles will find a way to maximize the situation to the benefit of the team.

You should get some love for being the first person to make this point. +rep

Whatever the reason, and call it what you want, the bottom line is that we have four starting-caliber OFers on this team, one of which is CLEARLY a weaker defender than the other three, yet he's starting in left field this year.

I agree that you don't want to "piss off" your talented players by "demoting them to a lesser position" (not your words, just echoed previous sentiments from around the board when we've been on this topic before). But you also hope that since (if) AJ is going to be a team leader, he will not have a problem helping this team become better by allowing Trembley to assemble the best possible lineup, regardless of where he is aligned defensively or in the batting order.

I totally understand your opinion, but I think you're putting the cart before the horse here. I believe that under MacPhail, evidence over the long term will rule the day.

Yes, Pie has shown flashes of excellence with the glove and the bat. However, he's also shown us that he can hurt us. Yes, he did have a hot stretch with the bat, but he hasn't shown sustained success at the plate in the majors to date.

As a contrast, Jones was our All Star rep based on a legit All Star 1st half last year - before slumping, and Reimold came in and flashed legit 30+ HR power - with below average defense.

I'd wager that, for now, Reimold and Jones are ahead of Pie based on production, but that our lineup for the next 10 years hasn't actually been determined yet. If Pie really is a well above average CF and a dynamic hitter, he WILL become a full time starter. It might not happen as fast as some on this board would like, but the cream will rise to the top.

FWIW, I don't see Reimold as a long term solution in the outfield. He's pretty brutal in left, but excellent at the plate. IMO, he'll end up a 1b or DH by some point in 2011.

[LookinUp]

I think Nick has shown bursts of much more power than he's been able to consistently produce. I'm thinking of his three-homer game and his monster blast in Detroit last year. I think it's plausible that he takes a step forward and becomes a consistent 30+ homer guy, maybe even with occasional excursions to 40 or more.

If this came from almost any other poster, I'd probably laugh it off as typical message board hyperbole.

From you...I'm intrigued.