I don't blame MGon, I do blame Trembley

[Mad Mark]

Apparently Cito Gaston...

Would have been Frasor's third appearance in three days. Not the same circumstance as Gonzalez.

[scOtt]

Apparently Cito Gaston...

They said Frasor pitched all three games against Texas. Not the same situation.

[ledzepp8]

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/gl.cgi?n1=sherrge01&t=p&year=2009&share=2.67#253-263-sum:pitching_gamelogs

Perspective?

Exactly, I know people haven't already forgotten Sherrill's rough stretch at the beginning of last season...

[NewMarketSean]

DT had a right to bring Gonzalez in yesterday. He'd gotten the save the night before, albeit very shakily, and it was the home opener...it was the perfect situation to bring in the closer and get the W. It didn't happen.

So now you've got 3 appearances by your $12 million closer, 2 blown saves, 2 losses and 1 save that went about as well as a route canal. DT has to be wondering whether he can trust Gonzalez going forward...but the Orioles have too much invested in him to cut bait with him now or demote him in the bullpen.

My thoughts: get Gonzalez into some non-save situations to get back his confidence. Take it easy with him until he proves he can get the job done. Until then, JJ is looking filthy and Koji will be back soon. No need to crowbar Gonzalez into the closer role now if all he is going to do is blow saves. That doesn't help anyone out.

[SilentJames]

DT had a right to bring Gonzalez in yesterday. He'd gotten the save the night before, albeit very shakily, and it was the home opener...it was the perfect situation to bring in the closer and get the W. It didn't happen.

So now you've got 3 appearances by your $12 million closer, 2 blown saves, 2 losses and 1 save that went about as well as a route canal. DT has to be wondering whether he can trust Gonzalez going forward...but the Orioles have too much invested in him to cut bait with him now or demote him in the bullpen.

My thoughts: get Gonzalez into some non-save situations to get back his confidence. Take it easy with him until he proves he can get the job done. Until then, JJ is looking filthy and Koji will be back soon. No need to crowbar Gonzalez into the closer role now if all he is going to do is blow saves. That doesn't help anyone out.

NMS, I just agreed with you TWICE....I'm scared.

I am eagerly awaiting the return of Koji, I think he will be our closer by the end of May. I'd give Gonzalez two more games before I have to make a move.

He simply has to show me something.

[SilentJames]

Exactly, I know people haven't already forgotten Sherrill's rough stretch at the beginning of last season...

this is different. Sherrill gave up a couple homers, that is going to happen it is part of the game. Gonzalez just look terrible out there, walking players badly, meatballs down the middle.

[Dr. FLK]

AM got Gonzo to be the closer. You don't give up on your new closer after 2 poor outings. I'm just flabbergasted at the number of people who will blame anything and everything that goes wrong on DT. Would you all be saying how brilliant he was if Gonzo had converted the save? Is DT now a genius for batting Miggy in the cleanup spot? Or, do we just forget how much we hated him for that a few days ago? This is really getting old, isn't it? Gonzo is just "over pitching" right now. It appears he's gripping the ball too tight, trying to throw it too hard, and his command stinks as a result. Hopefully Kranitz can fix it, and Gonzo will be fine.

[NewMarketSean]

NMS, I just agreed with you TWICE....I'm scared.

I am eagerly awaiting the return of Koji, I think he will be our closer by the end of May. I'd give Gonzalez two more games before I have to make a move.

He simply has to show me something.

Ask yourself this...would Gonzalez still be in save situations if he'd done what he did for Boston or NYY?

No. He would be demoted even after 3 appearances because he looks like crap and is in a crucial position for a team expected to make the playoffs. I know the O's aren't expected to go to the playoffs -- but the team should start to approach decision making as if they are. No more letting guys work through severe problems in crucial game situations.

If the O's are basing the season's success on wins and losses now, they need to make the moves that reflect those expectations. Gonzalez is doing nothing but costing this team wins.

[Frobby]

I agree that this is completely and unequivocally Trembley's loss.

I think Gonzalez will end up being a good signing for us, and 3 outings doesn't make me reconsider that. I think he's gonna make the people saying that he sucks after 12 batters or whatever it's been look as stupid as I think their reactionary opinions are.

But, he shouldn't have been in the game tonight. I said before the game even started that he should be off limits. He threw almost 30 pitches last night. You don't bring a guy who is clearly struggling with command back a night after throwing 30 pitches. Its just stupid managing. Even if JJ struggled in the 8th, I would have brought him back out. After he breezed through that inning like a college kid pitching against middle schoolers, it became a no-brainer.

I don't think poor decisions by Trembley played even the tiniest of roles in us losing the first two games, but I think his poor decision to go to Gonzalez for the 9th single-handedly cost us the game today. I don't put even one ounce of blame on Gonzalez, just as I wouldn't put any blame on a hitter with one arm striking out. He wasn't capable of playing today, and shouldn't have been asked to. Trembley screwed the pooch today, big time. And it wasn't even a remotely debatable decision, you simply can't have Gonzalez pitch today.

The Orioles are 1-2 this year. Dave Trembley is 0-1. And please, someone just try and say that I'm just a Trembley basher that is continuing my vendetta against him.

This is a measured post from a poster who isn't known for second guessing every decision made by a manager that turns out wrong. I guess I agree with it, though this is certainly not the first time in recorded history that a manager went to his closer the day after he'd had a lenthy inning the day before. (By the way, Gonzalez threw 26 pitches on Thursday, not 30.) I think when you add up the lengthy outing on Thursday, the fact that the time elapsed between the two games was only about 19 hours, and Gonzo's general shakiness in his first two outings, it would have made more sense to go to someone else.

[Mackus]

AM got Gonzo to be the closer. You don't give up on your new closer after 2 poor outings. I'm just flabbergasted at the number of people who will blame anything and everything that goes wrong on DT. Would you all be saying how brilliant he was if Gonzo had converted the save? Is DT now a genius for batting Miggy in the cleanup spot? Or, do we just forget how much we hated him for that a few days ago? This is really getting old, isn't it? Gonzo is just "over pitching" right now. It appears he's gripping the ball too tight, trying to throw it too hard, and his command stinks as a result. Hopefully Kranitz can fix it, and Gonzo will be fine.

But when your closers has had two very shaky appearances and thrown about 30 pitches the night before, its a very easy decision to not go to him. Especially when your 8th inning guy just made the Jays look like toddlers the inning before, mowing them down effortlessly.

[SteveA]

A factor I would like to know about is how did Gonzalez's warmup go? Was he throwing strikes? Did Trembley even call and ask the bullpen coach that?

I'd be interested to know if the Gonzalez who came out and threw 6 straight balls was throwing "strikes" in the bullpen, or if he was just as wild. (For that matter, what did his 8 warmup pitches on the field look like).

Didn't communication between themanager and the bullpen used to be two way? You get a couple guys up, ask how they are throwing, take input from the bullpen coach as to whether to bring him in or not. If Gonzalez was all over the place inthe bullpen, maybe Trembley could have gotten that information from the bullpen and made a decision to stick with Johnson (and to get Meredith up sooner).

If Gonzalez was throwing pintpoint strikes in warmup, then came out and threw 6 straight balls to batters, then maybe we need to get sports psychologist involved.

One other thing I want to point out to the people who are saying we are judging too much on just 3 appearances, 2 innings, small sample size, blah blah blah. Here are some excerpts from Roch's blog from the last couple weeks of spring training:

Mike Gonzalez walked the first batter he faced on four pitches, and Don Kelly smacked a two-run homer to give Detroit the lead

Hmm. Sound familiar? Oh, it's only spring training. Doesn't mean anything.

The week before:

Mike Gonzalez allowed a run in the bottom of the eighth. He threw 23 pitches, 11 for strikes. Gonzalez walked the leadoff hitter, Colby Rasmus, and David Freese's two-out double increased St. Louis' lead to 4-2.

There were constant questions during spring training about whether he was healthy; his velocity seemed to be down; he had been bothered by his back early in camp. He kept saying everything was fine, he kept saying he "liked the way the ball was coming out of his hand".

Well, we have all got to watch the ball come out of his hand this week, as his body flails in every direction and the ball goes all over the place. He's thrown 59 pitches, 29 for strikes (hmm, that seems like the same ratio shown in that spring training game quoted above).

People aren't just reacting to 2 innings, 6 hits, 3 walks, as bad as that is. They are reacting to someone who clearly has no idea where hte ball is going, and who is continuing a pattern that was begun in spring training. It's not just the stats from a 2 inning sample size, it's the whole package... it's his spring training, his unrepeatable mechanics, the fact that he has faced the 7-8-9 hitters in each outing and still can't get them out.

[ledzepp8]

this is different. Sherrill gave up a couple homers, that is going to happen it is part of the game. Gonzalez just look terrible out there, walking players badly, meatballs down the middle.

Don't get me wrong...I agree that he's looked terrible and I'm as disappointed as anyone else in his performance. Just putting it into perspective that it's still less than 3 IP.

[ledzepp8]

But when your closers has had two very shaky appearances and thrown about 30 pitches the night before, its a very easy decision to not go to him. Especially when your 8th inning guy just made the Jays look like toddlers the inning before, mowing them down effortlessly.

You're right he would have had a good reason to not put Gonzalez into the game, but it's not totally out of the realm of normalcy to use him.

[SteveA]

Don't get me wrong...I agree that he's looked terrible and I'm as disappointed as anyone else in his performance. Just putting it into perspective that it's still less than 3 IP.

If you ignore spring training, where he had a lot of similar problems (walking the leadoff batter, not throwing strikes) as well as there being concerns that his velocity was not where it was supposed to be.

Then yes, it's only 2 innings, actually. For it to be 3 innings he'd actually have to successfully complete more than one of his innings.

[El Gordo]

If you ignore spring training, where he had a lot of similar problems (walking the leadoff batter, not throwing strikes) as well as there being concerns that his velocity was not where it was supposed to be.

Then yes, it's only 2 innings, actually. For it to be 3 innings he'd actually have to successfully complete more than one of his innings.

OK, judge him on his ST, and ignore the rest of his career. If he's not injured you have to go with him.