Seriously...what is up with Wieters?

[Sports Guy]

By your definition Mauer is a failure. In 5 years in the majors he has started at catcher in 130 games once. He have averaged 111 games. He's on a pace to start 112 games at catcher his year. He has been the leagues MVP but he can't meet your standards. Do you think your standard might be a little extreme.

I said cut Wieters starts at catcher to 100 games. See what happens. If he hits well add 11 games the next year. That puts him right where Mauer is today. If he handles that and hits well then add 10 more games the next year. Let him DH 40 games next year if he hits well.

I think you need to rethink what your expectation are for an offensive catcher. They are way too high IMO.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/mauerjo01.shtml

Again with this example? You were wrong the first time you used it and you still are. MAUER HAS BEEN ON THE DL A LOT! You can't use him as an example because he hasn't been healthy.

You are just incredibly wrong here...or, Wieters just isn't that good. Its definitely one of the 2.

[Dr. FLK]

By your definition Mauer is a failure. In 5 years in the majors he has started at catcher in 130 games once. He have averaged 111 games. He's on a pace to start 112 games at catcher his year. He has been the leagues MVP but he can't meet your standards. Do you think your standard might be a little extreme.

I said cut Wieters starts at catcher to 100 games. See what happens. If he hits well add 11 games the next year. That puts him right where Mauer is today. If he handles that and hits well then add 10 more games the next year. Let him DH 40 games next year if he hits well.

I think you need to rethink what your expectation are for an offensive catcher. They are way too high IMO.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/mauerjo01.shtml

So we have a catcher who has to be restricted to catching 60% of the team's games, thus forcing a terrible hitter to be in the lineup 40% of the time? I'd say that hurts his value as an elite catcher pretty considerably.

[mikezpen]

I think that Matt Wieters is the major rehabilitation project facing Showalter and whoever his batting coach will be. They have to turn this guy into the middle of the order stud we thought we had drafted.

[wildcard]

Again with this example? You were wrong the first time you used it and you still are. MAUER HAS BEEN ON THE DL A LOT! You can't use him as an example because he hasn't been healthy.

You are just incredibly wrong here...or, Wieters just isn't that good. Its definitely one of the 2.

It would be nice if you at least checked your facts so you know what you are talking about. You are 100% wrong

Mauer became a regular catcher in 2005. Since that time he has spend 58 days on the DL.

That is 5.7 years or about 1048 days of service time and 58 on the DL which is about 5.4%.

Wieters has 263 day of service time. He has been on the DL 16 days. That is 6%. So actually Wieters has been on the DL a higher percentage than Mauer.

You have no leg to stand on with this one. Mauer has not been on the DL that much in the last 5.7 years. So he is a perfect example of how an offensive catcher should be used.

[Frobby]

I'm going to weigh in on WC's suggestion that Wieters needs more rest, and say that it wouldn't hurt to try that approach. He has played the 6th most games and innings of any catcher in MLB despite a stint on the 15-day DL. You could back him off a bit and still be far from "babying" him. I don't know that more rest would benefit Wieters' hitting, but it may be worth a try.

[wildcard]

So we have a catcher who has to be restricted to catching 60% of the team's games, thus forcing a terrible hitter to be in the lineup 40% of the time? I'd say that hurts his value as an elite catcher pretty considerably.

That does not stop the Twins from using Mauer that way. And he has been a MVP.

[geschinger]

Sorry if this has already been asked/answered... Is the amount of rest Wieters is getting significantly different than it was in the minor leagues when he was hitting well?

[DrungoHazewood]

By your definition Mauer is a failure. In 5 years in the majors he has started at catcher in 130 games once. He have averaged 111 games. He's on a pace to start 112 games at catcher his year. He has been the leagues MVP but he can't meet your standards. Do you think your standard might be a little extreme.

I said cut Wieters starts at catcher to 100 games. See what happens. If he hits well add 11 games the next year. That puts him right where Mauer is today. If he handles that and hits well then add 10 more games the next year. Let him DH 40 games next year if he hits well.

I think you need to rethink what your expectation are for an offensive catcher. They are way too high IMO.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/mauerjo01.shtml

I guess the problem is that most of us were hoping he'd be a little more than the 2007 version of Joe Mauer. Catch about 100 games, DH or PH a little, give us a .800 OPS or so. Somebody like Tatum has to catch 40% of the time, and be a zero in the lineup.

Maybe I should be happy with a perfectly decent little player, but it's sometimes hard to manage expectations. That scenario I just described is going to be a three win player, and that's not going to drive the O's to contention. It won't hurt, but it's not the kind of advantage a team like the O's need to get out of the Yanks/Sox/Rays hole. That'll have to come from elsewhere.

[Frobby]

That does not stop the Twins from using Mauer that way. And he has been a MVP.

You're exaggerating a bit.

In 2008, Mauer started 135 games at C, 83% of the games.

In 2009, Mauer started 105 games at C but missed 22 on the DL. So, he started 75% of the games where he was available.

This year Mauer has started 83 of 119 games. However, there was a 7-game stretch where he sat out entirely even though the Twins did not put him on the DL. So, he's started about 74% of the games were he was available.

So, Mauer starts 74-83% of the time when he's healthy, and DH's another chunk of the time.

[DrungoHazewood]

That does not stop the Twins from using Mauer that way. And he has been a MVP.

His MVP year, the only year he deserved to be MVP, he caught 139 games. The two things aren't coincidental - they're directly related. If, in 2009, he'd caught 100 games, DH'd in 15 more, and pinch hit in 15 more, he definitely wouldn't have been the most valuable player.

[Sports Guy]

It would be nice if you at least checked your facts so you know what you are talking about. You are 100% wrong

Mauer became a regular catcher in 2005. Since that time he has spend 58 days on the DL.

That is 5.7 years or about 1048 days of service time and 58 on the DL which is about 5.4%.

Wieters has 263 day of service time. He has been on the DL 16 days. That is 6%. So actually Wieters has been on the DL a higher percentage than Mauer.

You have no leg to stand on with this one. Mauer has not been on the DL that much in the last 5.7 years. So he is a perfect example of how an offensive catcher should be used.

Earlier this season, Mauer missed 7 games and had a pinch hitting appearance in an 8th game..a games against the O's. Didn't get the DL but missed all that time. That is pretty significant when you are talking about what you are trying to talk about. He missed back to back games earlier this month which means he probably had an issue..Other than that, he has missed games very sparingly.

In 2009, he missed the entire month of April. He then missed only 3 more games the rest of the season.

In 2007, he only apepared in 4 games in April and then missed the next month of the season.

2005 was his first full year, so, as is the case with all young players, he is going to sit a little less in his first full year than most.

So, you are talking about 6 seasons, including this one...In those 6 seasons, 2 of them he missed an entire month and 1 of them was his first full season.

And this year, he missed 7 games and the season isn't over yet. 7 games is 4% of a full season and we obviously still have a lot more games to go. So, he has missed much more than 4% of their season thus far.

2006 and 2008 were his only full seasons where you didn't see him get hurt and miss a good amount of time. In those 2 seasons, he averaged about 129 games catching and you can tell that they were still bringing him along slower in 2006, in his second year, as he DH'ed 17 times that year and only 5 in 2008.

So, I reiterate, Mauer is an awful example. You are talking about a small sampling of seasons and in a 1/3 of those seasons, he missed a month, so that brings you down to 4 seasons, including this one. In those 4 season, 1 of them was his first full year, as a 22 y/o. So, your sampling is getting smaller and smaller.

You are wrong here. If this is how Wieters has to be handled, then we should be looking to deal him and bring in a catcher who isn't a big dingleberry.

[wildcard]

Sorry if this has already been asked/answered... Is the amount of rest Wieters is getting significantly different than it was in the minor leagues when he was hitting well?

In 2008 his only full year on the minors he caught in 93 games and played 130. The means he caught in 71.5% of the games he played. He either Dhed or PH in 37 games. That doesn't mean that he started all those games though.

71% of 162 games would 115 games.

The International League season is 144 games over 152 days, which means Wieters may have had 14 days where he did not play in the games. Since there are doubleheaders and Wieters played for three different teams during the year it is hard to say how many off days were in the game schedule. I would guess 10-15 but I could he off on that

http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=wieter001mat.

[Sports Guy]

McCann has caught anywhere from 120-134 games since he became a full time starter..not including this year...and the 120 was his first full season...Since then, he hasn't been under 125 and has been 130 or more twice..And that's in a league with no DH and catching in the awful Atlanta heat.

He must be Superman or something.

[wildcard]

I guess the problem is that most of us were hoping he'd be a little more than the 2007 version of Joe Mauer. Catch about 100 games, DH or PH a little, give us a .800 OPS or so. Somebody like Tatum has to catch 40% of the time, and be a zero in the lineup.

Maybe I should be happy with a perfectly decent little player, but it's sometimes hard to manage expectations. That scenario I just described is going to be a three win player, and that's not going to drive the O's to contention. It won't hurt, but it's not the kind of advantage a team like the O's need to get out of the Yanks/Sox/Rays hole. That'll have to come from elsewhere.

Two points:

1) I am thinking that Wieters proper rested in a 850-900 hitter.

2) The 100 games is only next year so he get his feet on the ground as a offensive player. After next year it is increased some using his offensive performance as a gauge as to how many games.

[Frobby]

McCann has caught anywhere from 120-134 games since he became a full time starter..not including this year...and the 120 was his first full season...Since then, he hasn't been under 125 and has been 130 or more twice..And that's in a league with no DH and catching in the awful Atlanta heat.

He must be Superman or something.

I would guess that in the NL, the good-hitting catchers start at catcher a little more often, since putting them at DH is not an option.