Matzusaka officially given permission...

[srock]

Did you see that territorial map Mackus linked to?

Well there's an identical one filed away in MLB offices somewhere that has "SEA NYY" stamped on Japan. And "TOR" stamped on all of Canada.

I'm not sure what your issue is here. Do you believe this entire discussion of territorial rights is some big fallacy? Or do you believe that MLB controls the distribution of its product only within US borders?

If this true, it is very difficult to believe, because it so incredibly stupid. You would need to put together a full fledged cross referenced thesis on this subject to convince me any business would intentional do this and hasn't yet collapsed under its own poor management.

That being said, this is the MLB, so anything is possible.

[srock]

Does the sharing of revenues via games delivered via IP work the same overseas as it does here? If so it might be a short term problem (NYY/SEA getting everything from Japan) as I think I remember reading the Japan is moving quickly towards IP from broadcasts.

The US is moving this direction also. Verizon and Comcast digital cable will eventually be purely IP based so they can integrate the internet and television pipes into one system. This will take awhile to happen. It does make for interesting options when it comes to splitting the money from broadcasts.

[davearm]

If this true, it is very difficult to believe, because it so incredibly stupid. You would need to put together a full fledged cross referenced thesis on this subject to convince me any business would intentional do this and hasn't yet collapsed under its own poor management.

That being said, this is the MLB, so anything is possible.

Stupid why?

Are you saying it's stupid to have territories in the first place, or stupid to extend them beyond US boundaries?

[geschinger]

Stupid why?

Are you saying it's stupid to have territories in the first place, or stupid to extend them beyond US boundaries?

I don't think it's the best idea to extend them beyond US boundaries. The teams the Japanese follow seems to be based on whom has the Japanese stars. An argument for territories based on geography might make some sense. Territories granted by where a big star signs doesn't seem to make a lot of sense IMO.

Hypotehtical, say the O's sign Matz and then traded for Ichiro and Kenji as a FA. Suddenly things might shift and it's the Orioles that the Japanese want to watch. Or say the Yankees trade Matsui to San Francisco. Do the territories change or are the Japanese stuck not getting to see the games they want to see? Would that make any sense from a business perspective not giving the consumers in Japan what they want?

[DrungoHazewood]

Stupid why?

Are you saying it's stupid to have territories in the first place, or stupid to extend them beyond US boundaries?

The way they've implemented the territorial restrictions for TV is wildly stupid. I'm blacked out from watching Orioles and Nats games on things like MLB Season Pass because I'm in their territory. Supposedly so that I'm not temped to stay home and watch the game on TV, and so I'll watch their games on local affiliates. But on a good day I'm 1:15 from RFK And almost 2:00 from OPACY, and the laws of physics prevent me from picking up Baltimore stations over the air. People in Norfolk and Charlotte and blacked out from the same games, and they'd be hard pressed to leave work on time and get to Baltimore the same day.

MLB is actually telling people to not buy their product.

[Sports Guy]

It is one thing to have rights in a region, or Toronto's case, a country where MLB is actually played.

It is another thing to only allow 2 teams to generate revenue in a country where no team is.

That is just stupid and it amazes me other teams would be ok with allowing only 2 teams to be able to truly market and sell their product in another country.

[davearm]

The way they've implemented the territorial restrictions for TV is wildly stupid. I'm blacked out from watching Orioles and Nats games on things like MLB Season Pass because I'm in their territory. Supposedly so that I'm not temped to stay home and watch the game on TV, and so I'll watch their games on local affiliates. But on a good day I'm 1:15 from RFK And almost 2:00 from OPACY, and the laws of physics prevent me from picking up Baltimore stations over the air. People in Norfolk and Charlotte and blacked out from the same games, and they'd be hard pressed to leave work on time and get to Baltimore the same day.

MLB is actually telling people to not buy their product.

On a conceptual level, the notion of having each team "own" territorial rights makes sense, and is probably a necessity.

I would never argue that MLB has implemented the concept well, though. Clearly there are major problems with the way the plan's being executed.

[geschinger]

The way they've implemented the territorial restrictions for TV is wildly stupid. I'm blacked out from watching Orioles and Nats games on things like MLB Season Pass because I'm in their territory. Supposedly so that I'm not temped to stay home and watch the game on TV, and so I'll watch their games on local affiliates. But on a good day I'm 1:15 from RFK And almost 2:00 from OPACY, and the laws of physics prevent me from picking up Baltimore stations over the air. People in Norfolk and Charlotte and blacked out from the same games, and they'd be hard pressed to leave work on time and get to Baltimore the same day.

MLB is actually telling people to not buy their product.

Shouldn't you get those games via local TV if you are that close? The way it worked when I was in SoFla is that the games blacked out on Extra Innings were blacked out because they were available on the local affiliate which presumably should be carried by your cable or sat provider.

What I can understand is how over the top the territories are. I could pretty much get all the Marlins games in SoFla via DirecTV or cable. Now that I am in the Boulder City, NV area I am considered in Padres, Diamondbacks, Giants, Athletics, Dodgers and Angels territory which is absolutely ridiculous. I think it's even worse if you live in Iowa. They need to make territories more realistic. However in a realistically drawn territory I do understand the need. If they didn't black out MLB Extra Innings in areas where it was reasonable to get the local affiliate you've dilluted the local affiliates ability to generate revenue which would lower the rights fees the team could charge.

[DrungoHazewood]

Does the sharing of revenues via games delivered via IP work the same overseas as it does here? If so it might be a short term problem (NYY/SEA getting everything from Japan) as I think I remember reading the Japan is moving quickly towards IP from broadcasts.

Actually, I think MLB prevents people with overseas addresses (or at least Japan) from getting MLB.tv at all.

Here's the leagalese, if you care to dissect:

(A) during the regular MLB season, (i) if you are located within the applicable Major League Baseball team's home television territory (except for certain home television territories for which MLBAM may offer in-market subscription services) or in Japan, and (ii) at present, due to the national exclusivity of ESPN and FOX, each Saturday until 7:00 PM EST (beginning May 21, 2005 and continuing for remaining Saturdays during the regular season) and each Sunday night (for games that begin after 5:00 PM EST), the scheduled webcast of that team's game will be blacked out; and

(B) during the MLB postseason, if you live within the following nations or territories, webcasts of the games will be blacked out: United States, Guam, US Virgin Islands and Japan. For these Services, you must submit your email address provided by either your Internet Service Provider or place of work. Email addresses provided by email services (e.g., Yahoo.com) will not be permitted. For example, clicking on a live MLB.TV link will perform and trigger a number of checks to make sure that you are located outside of the applicable blackout territory. Due to the foregoing blackout restrictions, you may be required to log in to each webcast (both for free and subscription fee webcasts) with a valid major credit card for address verification. In such a case, a temporary $1.00 authorization hold will be placed on your credit card, which will subsequently expire. You will not incur a charge for this authorization hold. IF YOU ATTEMPT TO CIRCUMVENT OR CIRCUMVENT ANY BLACKOUT RESTRICTION OR OTHER USE RESTRICTION: YOUR SUBSCRIPTION WILL BE SUBJECT TO IMMEDIATE TERMINATION AND A CHARGE OF ONE HUNDRED DOLLARS ($100.00) FOR EARLY TERMINATION; YOU MAY BE SUBJECT TO LEGAL ACTION; AND MLBAM RESERVES THE RIGHT TO REPORT SUCH MISCONDUCT TO APPROPRIATE LAW ENFORCEMENT AUTHORITIES.

I love the end part. If you're in Billings, Montana and you try some devious underhanded tricks to watch the Mariners you'll have your subscription canceled, you'll be fined $100, and they just might take you to court.

That's some good business sense there.

[DrungoHazewood]

Shouldn't you get those games via local TV if you are that close? The way it worked when I was in SoFla is that the games blacked out on Extra Innings were blacked out because they were available on the local affiliate which presumably should be carried by your cable or sat provider.

Directv says I'm in Washington's market. MLB says I'm in both Baltimore and Washington's markets. Physics says I might be able to pick up local Baltimore affiliates with an antenna if I had a homeowners-association-busting-100-ft. tower and a killer antenna.

So, MLB blacks me out on Season Pass, Directv gives me only Washington affiliates, and physics says I can't get Baltimore over the air. I'm screwed. Things were fine until the Nats showed up and Washington stations severely curtailed their broadcasts of O's games.

What I can understand is how over the top the territories are. I could pretty much get all the Marlins games in SoFla via DirecTV or cable. Now that I am in the Boulder City, NV area I am considered in Padres, Diamondbacks, Giants, Athletics, Dodgers and Angels territory which is absolutely ridiculous. I think it's even worse if you live in Iowa. They need to make territories more realistic. However in a realistically drawn territory I do understand the need. If they didn't black out MLB Extra Innings in areas where it was reasonable to get the local affiliate you've dilluted the local affiliates ability to generate revenue which would lower the rights fees the team could charge.

The NFL, which has almost all weekend games, once a week, only blacks out a 75-mile radius around the stadium. MLB, which draws far fewer remote fans for the large percentage of weeknight games should have a correspondingly smaller blackout region.

[davearm]

Shouldn't you get those games via local TV if you are that close? The way it worked when I was in SoFla is that the games blacked out on Extra Innings were blacked out because they were available on the local affiliate which presumably should be carried by your cable or sat provider.

What I can understand is how over the top the territories are. I could pretty much get all the Marlins games in SoFla via DirecTV or cable. Now that I am in the Boulder City, NV area I am considered in Padres, Diamondbacks, Giants, Athletics, Dodgers and Angels territory which is absolutely ridiculous. I think it's even worse if you live in Iowa. They need to make territories more realistic. However in a realistically drawn territory I do understand the need. If they didn't black out MLB Extra Innings in areas where it was reasonable to get the local affiliate you've dilluted the local affiliates ability to generate revenue which would lower the rights fees the team could charge.

Jon thinks the issue is with MLB. To an extent, he's right.

But the real culprit is his local cable provider and/or MASN. MASN is authorized to sell rights to O's games to Jon's local cable provider, but Jon's cable provider has elected not to buy those rights because the viewership in his area isn't large enough to justify paying the rights fees they'd pay to carry the network.

Now if Jon was able to get games via MLB EI, that would even further diminish viewership/demand for the local cable provider, meaning they'd be willing to pay even less for rights fees to MASN. So MASN's value is diminished because it is being cannibalized by MLB EI in its "local" territory. Naturally MASN does not want this, and that's why MLB EI is blacked out in Jon's area.

This system would work just fine (or at least a lot better) if MASN was actually carried by every cable system throughout the O's territory. The reason it's not is a simple case of supply and demand between MASN and the local cable provider(s).

So in a nutshell, Jon doesn't get O's games because his cable company doesn't want to pay the prices MASN charges, and MASN doesn't want alternate, competing suppliers (MLB EI) encroaching on its territory.

[geschinger]

Directv says I'm in Washington's market. MLB says I'm in both Baltimore and Washington's markets. Physics says I might be able to pick up local Baltimore affiliates with an antenna if I had a homeowners-association-busting-100-ft. tower and a killer antenna.

So, MLB blacks me out on Season Pass, Directv gives me only Washington affiliates, and physics says I can't get Baltimore over the air. I'm screwed. Things were fine until the Nats showed up and Washington stations severely curtailed their broadcasts of O's games.

The NFL, which has almost all weekend games, once a week, only blacks out a 75-mile radius around the stadium. MLB, which draws far fewer remote fans for the large percentage of weeknight games should have a correspondingly smaller blackout region.

You can't do away with it completely or it would screw the local affiliate but I agree that the radius needs to be shrank considerably.

[DrungoHazewood]

Jon thinks the issue is with MLB. To an extent, he's right.

But the real culprit is his local cable provider and/or MASN. MASN is authorized to sell rights to O's games to Jon's local cable provider, but Jon's cable provider has elected not to buy those rights because the viewership in his area isn't large enough to justify paying the rights fees they'd pay to carry the network.

Now if Jon was able to get games via MLB EI, that would even further diminish viewership/demand for the local cable provider, meaning they'd be willing to pay even less for rights fees to MASN. So MASN's value is diminished because it is being cannibalized by MLB EI in its "local" territory. Naturally MASN does not want this, and that's why MLB EI is blacked out in Jon's area.

This system would work just fine (or at least a lot better) if MASN was actually carried by every cable system throughout the O's territory. The reason it's not is a simple case of supply and demand between MASN and the local cable provider(s).

So in a nutshell, Jon doesn't get O's games because his cable company doesn't want to pay the prices MASN charges, and MASN doesn't want alternate, competing suppliers (MLB EI) encroaching on its territory.

Not exactly. My local provider is Directv. They have MASN. I can get a lot, or maybe even most Orioles games. But the ones on local affiliates I can't get because Directv will only allow me to watch Washington's local channels, and they've largely dropped the Orioles for the Nats. But because MLB has decreed that I'm in the blackout zones for both DC and Baltimore I can't get O's games on Extra Innings.

A simple fix would be to allow anyone outside of a Directv market to get all games outside of that Directv market, at least for satellite customers.

[davearm]

Not exactly. My local provider is Directv. They have MASN. I can get a lot, or maybe even most Orioles games. But the ones on local affiliates I can't get because Directv will only allow me to watch Washington's local channels, and they've largely dropped the Orioles for the Nats. But because MLB has decreed that I'm in the blackout zones for both DC and Baltimore I can't get O's games on Extra Innings.

A simple fix would be to allow anyone outside of a Directv market to get all games outside of that Directv market, at least for satellite customers.

Duly noted.

The point remains, your issue is with your local provider, not MLB.

[DrungoHazewood]

Duly noted.

The point remains, your issue is with your local provider, not MLB.

Sort of, but the problem would still be solved if MLB cut their territorial zones down to a reasonable driving distance. Then I could watch the O's on Extra Innings.