Trade rumors heat up...

[DrungoHazewood]

Perhaps "more untouchable than Bruce" is a stretch. But the guy hit 7 more home runs last year than any Oriole. He was a 30/30 guy. He plays a pretty premium position (More premium than Nick Markakis at least). To think the Reds would include Phillips as the 2nd/3rd/4th player in a deal for Bedard is fantastical.

That's definitely a glass-half-full view. The half empty side is that Phillips is 27 this year, has a career line of .262/.306/.419, and is coming off a season that far surpasses anything he's done before. He had this year in the lesser of the two major leagues, in a tiny park, with a K:BB ratio of about 3:1. He blew past his 90th percentile PECOTA, and most any other projection for him.

He might repeat his 2007, but my money is on him regressing to his true ability (especially if he comes to a less hitter friendly park in the AL), and posting a mid .700s OPS.

[yestheydo]

An .816 OPS is almost impossible to replace at 2b currently, especially one with gold glove defense.

I don't know about "almost impossible". Keppinger was around .800 over six years in the minors, and has a career OPS of .806 in parts of three MLB seasons, including .877 in 241 abs last year. And he's cheap and in-house. Phillips will get very expensive very soon. But Dusty's gonna love him, the fans love him, so he's not going anywhere.

[RShack]

Let me throw out another option.

Angelos: This looks good, depending on what you get in return from TEAM X

McPhail: Agreed. I am working on an offer right now that would return us player A, B, C and I'm attempting to get player D.

Angelos: If you get player D, I'll approve both trades. I'm more comfortable we'll have a full product to offer the fan base next year

McPhail: Let me see where TEAM X is on our latest offer and I'll get back to you shortly.

Well, since everybody is having REALLY STRONG OPINIONS BASED ON ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, I think I will too ;-)

I have no idea what AM and PA say to each other when they talk, but my bet is that the general tone of the conversation is much like what you've portrayed here. I bet they talk frequently, and I bet the conversation has the tone of 2 partners discussing what's best, with AM fully comfortable with the fact the PA is the owner.

All the knee-jerk reaction about how this is somehow the Last Straw, that PA has somehow stabbed AM in the back, and that AM is (or should be) on his way out the door is pretty remarkable. I can't believe people think like that. (Of course, the big excuse will be "10 years of losing", just like it is for everything else.)

[forest leech]

Well it's not like what BB said was without precedent... Angelos has a long, storied history of meddling with GM's.

But its his opinion... nobody else has reported on Angelos stopping any deal from going through.

[tywright]

I don't know about "almost impossible". Keppinger was around .800 over six years in the minors, and has a career OPS of .806 in parts of three MLB seasons, including .877 in 241 abs last year. And he's cheap and in-house. Phillips will get very expensive very soon. But Dusty's gonna love him, the fans love him, so he's not going anywhere.

Speaking of Keppinger, do you think he's expendable in a trade for Bedard?

[UMterp08]

That's definitely a glass-half-full view. The half empty side is that Phillips is 27 this year, has a career line of .262/.306/.419, and is coming off a season that far surpasses anything he's done before. He had this year in the lesser of the two major leagues, in a tiny park, with a K:BB ratio of about 3:1. He blew past his 90th percentile PECOTA, and most any other projection for him.

He might repeat his 2007, but my money is on him regressing to his true ability (especially if he comes to a less hitter friendly park in the AL), and posting a mid .700s OPS.

I don't necessarily disagree. But what do you think the Reds think of him? My guess is that they're expecting/hoping for more 2007s out of him, and are feeling like the cat that got the cream, having acquired him for a PTBNL.

[UMterp08]

Well, since everybody is having REALLY STRONG OPINIONS BASED ON ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, I think I will too ;-)

I have no idea what AM and PA say to each other when they talk, but my bet is that the general tone of the conversation is much like what you've portrayed here. I bet they talk frequently, and I bet the conversation has the tone of 2 partners discussing what's best, with AM fully comfortable with the fact the PA is the owner.

All the knee-jerk reaction about how this is somehow the Last Straw, that PA has somehow stabbed AM in the back, and that AM is (or should be) on his way out the door is pretty remarkable. I can't believe people think like that. (Of course, the big excuse will be "10 years of losing", just like it is for everything else.)

Nail on the head. Thank you.

[yestheydo]

Speaking of Keppinger, do you think he's expendable in a trade for Bedard?

Wouldn't you rather have Juan Castro? He has manos de oro

I don't know about the Reds, but I'd totally rather give up Keppinger, not to mention his little buddy Hopper, than Encarnacion. For Bedard, heck yes.

[NuOriolesNation]

My beef with the whole situation centers around the fact that doesn't PA take the time out of his busy lawyer lifestyle to read the headlines and get briefings from his main men in the FO? I mean it isn't like this whole trying to trade Roberts thing has been something that has been hidden under the covers. There have been reports, headlines, and rumblings for weeks now about Roberts to the Cubs. If PA never intended on approving a trade for Roberts, why did he just not go to MacPhail and tell him not to waste his time trying to trade Roberts because unless it is something monumental, he wasn't going to approve it instead of letting MacPhail bleed and sweat all over the negotiating table trying to trade Roberts. It isn't like there aren't other guys we need to work on dealing...

[fewfirstchoice]

I cant believe you guys are so blind to the players on other teams around the league.Dont get me wrong B. Roberts is a geat player aswell but when you look at the numbers he doesnt compare to Phillips.

Roberts

290avg., 12hr., 57rbi., 50sb., a 377obp. and a 432 slug. percent.Now lets look at BP stats.

Phillips

288avg., 30hr., 94rbi, 32sb, a 340obp., and a 485 slug. percent.

Looking at those numbers which 2nd baseman would you take on your team.Better yet which player would you take on your fantasy team which really is your team.Lets look at how the fantasy guys look at it at teh sites.Phillips fantasy number was 2055 and Roberts was 1829.So anyway you look at it phillips was by far the best second baseman in baseball last year fantasy wise.He was ahead of all other second baseman in fantasy points.Thats Utley,Roberts, or any second baseman.

Saying all this does have a point.Im just trying to get people look at stats and see just how good of a player someone is before they make crazy statements.Saying Bp would be the 3rd part of any deal taken place.nonsense.

Also I hope the Reds trade for Bedard.But I do feel that Bailey, Cueto, Votto, and EE would be way to much to pay for Bedard.That would be to big even if the Os added someone else.But I still hope AM will come down a little on his asking price so he and WK can work something out.I mena a deal of Bailey or Cueto,EE or Votto,then a couple players like Maloney and Stubbs and I could even see the Reds adding a fifth like Keppinger if the Os will add a BP arm like Cabrera or Walker.I see this as being a decent trade for both sides.A little Heavy on the Os side but you got to give up something to get something.

[tywright]

I cant believe you guys are so blind to the players on other teams around the league.Dont get me wrong B. Roberts is a geat player aswell but when you look at the numbers he doesnt compare to Phillips.

Roberts

290avg., 12hr., 57rbi., 50sb., a 377obp. and a 432 slug. percent.Now lets look at BP stats.

Phillips

288avg., 30hr., 94rbi, 32sb, a 340obp., and a 485 slug. percent.

Looking at those numbers which 2nd baseman would you take on your team.Better yet which player would you take on your fantasy team which really is your team.Lets look at how the fantasy guys look at it at teh sites.Phillips fantasy number was 2055 and Roberts was 1829.So anyway you look at it phillips was by far the best second baseman in baseball last year fantasy wise.He was ahead of all other second baseman in fantasy points.Thats Utley,Roberts, or any second baseman.

Saying all this does have a point.Im just trying to get people look at stats and see just how good of a player someone is before they make crazy statements.Saying Bp would be the 3rd part of any deal taken place.nonsense.

Also I hope the Reds trade for Bedard.But I do feel that Bailey, Cueto, Votto, and EE would be way to much to pay for Bedard.That would be to big even if the Os added someone else.But I still hope AM will come down a little on his asking price so he and WK can work something out.I mena a deal of Bailey or Cueto,EE or Votto,then a couple players like Maloney and Stubbs and I could even see the Reds adding a fifth like Keppinger if the Os will add a BP arm like Cabrera or Walker.I see this as being a decent trade for both sides.A little Heavy on the Os side but you got to give up something to get something.

This isn't fantasy baseball.

Roberts also brings to table, good defense, switching hitting capibilities, plate discipline, top notch lead off ability, and a TRACK record.

[tvdoc]

Thanks for the update, Tony. Just wondering if you think the Roberts trade was held up because it was contingent on another trade happening - which they thought was just about completed.

I wish people wouldn't ask this type of question,nobody knows the answer and it's a waste of time asking.

[O'sFanThruJune]

Couldn't decide which of the many threads discussing Brian Roberts trade rumors to post this in, but I thought it was interesting.

The most recent post at Beyond the Boxscore took a quick look at whether the Cubs would be better served trading for Roberts or staying in house with Patterson at 2B.

[BillySmith]

I never caught that Eric is Corey's little bro.

[BaltimoreTerp]

I cant believe you guys are so blind to the players on other teams around the league.Dont get me wrong B. Roberts is a geat player aswell but when you look at the numbers he doesnt compare to Phillips.

Roberts

290avg., 12hr., 57rbi., 50sb., a 377obp. and a 432 slug. percent.Now lets look at BP stats.

Phillips

288avg., 30hr., 94rbi, 32sb, a 340obp., and a 485 slug. percent.

Looking at those numbers which 2nd baseman would you take on your team.Better yet which player would you take on your fantasy team which really is your team.Lets look at how the fantasy guys look at it at teh sites.Phillips fantasy number was 2055 and Roberts was 1829.So anyway you look at it phillips was by far the best second baseman in baseball last year fantasy wise.He was ahead of all other second baseman in fantasy points.Thats Utley,Roberts, or any second baseman.

Saying all this does have a point.Im just trying to get people look at stats and see just how good of a player someone is before they make crazy statements.Saying Bp would be the 3rd part of any deal taken place.nonsense.

Career:

Roberts (7 seasons, 5 full/majority):

 Year Ag Tm  Lg  G   AB    R    H   2B 3B  HR  RBI  SB CS  BB  SO   BA   OBP   SLG *OPS+  TB   SH  SF IBB HBP GDP +--------------+---+----+----+----+---+--+---+----+---+--+---+---+-----+-----+-----+----+----+---+---+---+---+---+2001 23 BAL AL  75  273   42   69  12  3   2   17  12  3  13  36  .253  .284  .341   68   93   3   3   0   0   32002 24 BAL AL  38  128   18   29   6  0   1   11   9  2  15  21  .227  .308  .297   66   38   3   2   0   1   32003 25 BAL AL 112  460   65  124  22  4   5   41  23  6  46  58  .270  .337  .367   87  169   4   1   1   1   92004 26 BAL AL 159  641  107  175  50  2   4   53  29 12  71  95  .273  .344  .376   90  241  15   6   1   1   32005 27 BAL AL 143  561   92  176  45  7  18   73  27 10  67  83  .314  .387  .515  139  289   5   4   5   3   6 MVP-18,AS2006 28 BAL AL 138  563   85  161  34  3  10   55  36  7  55  66  .286  .347  .410   96  231   6   5   4   0  162007 29 BAL AL 156  621  103  180  42  5  12   57  50  7  89  99  .290  .377  .432  112  268   2   4   6   0   8 AS+--------------+---+----+----+----+---+--+---+----+---+--+---+---+-----+-----+-----+----+----+---+---+---+---+---+7 Seasons      821 3247  512  914 211 24  52  307 186 47 356 458  .281  .351  .409  101 1329  38  25  17   6  48+--------------+---+----+----+----+---+--+---+----+---+--+---+---+-----+-----+-----+----+----+---+---+---+---+---+

Phillips (6 seasons, 3 full/majority):

 Year Ag Tm  Lg  G   AB    R    H   2B 3B  HR  RBI  SB CS  BB  SO   BA   OBP   SLG *OPS+  TB   SH  SF IBB HBP GDP +--------------+---+----+----+----+---+--+---+----+---+--+---+---+-----+-----+-----+----+----+---+---+---+---+---+2002 21 CLE AL  11   31    5    8   3  1   0    4   0  0   3   6  .258  .343  .419  105   13   1   0   0   1   02003 22 CLE AL 112  370   36   77  18  1   6   33   4  5  14  77  .208  .242  .311   48  115   5   1   0   3  122004 23 CLE AL   6   22    1    4   2  0   0    1   0  2   2   5  .182  .250  .273   40    6   0   0   0   0   12005 24 CLE AL   6    9    1    0   0  0   0    0   0  0   0   4  .000  .000  .000 -100    0   0   0   0   0   02006 25 CIN NL 149  536   65  148  28  1  17   75  25  2  35  88  .276  .324  .427   88  229   4   6   3   6  192007 26 CIN NL 158  650  107  187  26  6  30   94  32  8  33 109  .288  .331  .485  105  315   2   5   4  12  26 MVP-22+--------------+---+----+----+----+---+--+---+----+---+--+---+---+-----+-----+-----+----+----+---+---+---+---+---+6 Seasons      442 1618  215  424  77  9  53  207  61 17  87 289  .262  .306  .419   85  678  12  12   7  22  58+--------------+---+----+----+----+---+--+---+----+---+--+---+---+-----+-----+-----+----+----+---+---+---+---+---+

So, do you want the one who is a little (2 1/2 years) older but a better and steadier player? Or the one that put un gaudy numbers but has no reason to make us belive he is anything but a one-year wonder?

I know which one I would take on my REALITY baseball team