Is Nick Markakis still an everyday player?

[Can_of_corn]

It's not his opinions that bother me. It's the way he expresses himself.

If you had a medical condition which only let you blink once a minute you would be surly too.

I think he overstated his actual view. I don't think he thinks Markakis shouldn't be in the league, just that he doesn't deserve the contract numbers being thrown around.

[hoosiers]

Nick is a below average OF, IMO, who has benefited statistically from playing so much that he gets nearly 700 at-bats per season. By counting stats, I believe Nick is somewhere between the third and fourth quartiles.

Whether one believes Nick should be an everyday player for the next several years depends somewhat on one's belief of the pool of everyday OFers capable of putting up about 1.5 WAR over 500-550 PAs - which is about where Nick is now.

IMO, if Nick were not a fan favorite and a long time Oriole player, we would be clamoring to go young and cheap in RF.

[Mayor McCheese]

Nick is a below average OF, IMO, who has benefited statistically from playing so much that he gets nearly 700 at-bats per season. By counting stats, I believe Nick is somewhere between the third and fourth quartiles.

Whether one believes Nick should be an everyday player for the next several years depends somewhat on one's belief of the pool of everyday OFers capable of putting up about 1.5 WAR over 500-550 PAs - which is about where Nick is now.

IMO, if Nick were not a fan favorite and a long time Oriole player, we would be clamoring to go young and cheap in RF.

Heres the answer: Lough.

[Scrat1]

It's not his opinions that bother me. It's the way he expresses himself.

Definitely agree with this. Smart guy, but absolutely no tact or warmth. At least with Law it's clearly a schtick. Law knows he's playing a role and enjoys antagonizing people. It's obnoxious, but at least he's self aware. Cameron just doesn't seem to be enjoying himself at all. He should probably stick to managing content and writing occasional articles. His sensibility is not right for the chats.

Though I largely agree with him about Markakis, his description of the Orioles as "not very good" this past season, despite leading the division, was what pissed so many people off. I get the sense that Cameron is fairly literal minded and it is true, taken literally, that the Orioles were not very good, but merely good or above average (at least until later in the season when they really turned it up). But colloquially, "not very good" means "bad" or "below average." Everyone knows this, which is what was so annoying about it. He could have called them, "a decent team playing over their heads," and people wouldn't have gotten so worked up. They may have disagreed, but it would have been a defensible position in the way that him claiming the Orioles were "not very good" was not, unless you're viewing it in strictly literal terms, which, who knows, maybe he was. Wouldn't surprise me if he was slightly on the spectrum. Not that that's a bad thing, but does mean the organic nature of e-chats is not a good fit for him.

[OriolesMagic83]

If the O's had an OF who had signed a 1 yr deal last offseason, who had put up a .729 OPS w/ 14 HR and 50 RBI, and 81 runs batting leadoff, what contract do you think the O's should offer this player? I don't think anyone would think the O's should offer more than 2 yr/$15 mill, a lot of people would say 1 yr/$8 mill is fair. The O's have already shown Markakis 10 years of loyalty. If he doesn't want to be here, lets see the reception he gets when he doesn't have an XBH in a month in Toronto or Chicago for example.

[CA-ORIOLE]

If the O's had an OF who had signed a 1 yr deal last offseason, who had put up a .729 OPS w/ 14 HR and 50 RBI, and 81 runs batting leadoff, what contract do you think the O's should offer this player? I don't think anyone would think the O's should offer more than 2 yr/$15 mill, a lot of people would say 1 yr/$8 mill is fair. The O's have already shown Markakis 10 years of loyalty. If he doesn't want to be here, lets see the reception he gets when he doesn't have an XBH in a month in Toronto or Chicago for example.

But, he's a gold glove outfielder who is vastly underrated by statistical weenies and provides invaluable and irreplaceable leadership.

.. what contract do you think the O's should offer this player?

10 billion dollars.

[AlbionHero]

I just think Cameron doesn't think 'league average" qualifies as "good". It's probably nothing more than that.

Pretty much. He's a guy who only looks at the games from a stat perspective. And you can't really say Nick is "Good" or "Above Average" if you simply look at his stats and compare him to other RFs out there.

I wouldn't really expect the younger sabermetric analysts to like him much.

[El Gordo]

League average for an AL OF in 2014 was .260 .323 .397 .720 He was 9th of 21 ML RF who qualified, in fWAR. 32 of the 55 ML OF who qualified. I'd say he is at least league average and will be so for the next few years. Melky Cabrerra had a similar season last year(2.6 fWAR) and he will be getting a lot more than Nick.

[Reboulet'sStache]

League average for an AL OF in 2014 was .260 .323 .397 .720 He was 9th of 21 ML RF who qualified, in fWAR. 32 of the 55 ML OF who qualified. I'd say he is at least league average and will be so for the next few years. Melky Cabrerra had a similar season last year(2.6 fWAR) and he will be getting a lot more than Nick.

The problem is the amount of PA he needed to get there. He dwarfed most outfielders.

[El Gordo]

The problem is the amount of PA he needed to get there. He dwarfed most outfielders.

About 100 more than average. So you feel those extra 100 PA could be better used by whom?

[DrungoHazewood]

Nick is a below average OF, IMO, who has benefited statistically from playing so much that he gets nearly 700 at-bats per season. By counting stats, I believe Nick is somewhere between the third and fourth quartiles.

Whether one believes Nick should be an everyday player for the next several years depends somewhat on one's belief of the pool of everyday OFers capable of putting up about 1.5 WAR over 500-550 PAs - which is about where Nick is now.

IMO, if Nick were not a fan favorite and a long time Oriole player, we would be clamoring to go young and cheap in RF.

Based on 2014 and Fangraphs' reckoning, Nick was 18th of 43 right fielders in WAR per PA (min 300 PAs). Among all outfielders, including CFers with greater defensive responsibility, he was 58th of 108. From this second list some players within 10 spots either side of Nick were Melky, Aoki, Khris Davis Matt Joyce, Bryce Harper, Ben Revere, Josh Hamilton. De Aza was about 15 places behind Nick. Coco Crisp, Ryan Braun, Colby Rasmus, and Curtis Granderson were roughly 20-25 spots behind Nick.

Of course there are limits to this type of analysis. The MLB leader in fWAR per PA among all outfielders was Steve Pearce.

[Reboulet'sStache]

About 100 more than average. So you feel those extra 100 PA could be better used by whom?

Don't know, but those are two separate questions. 1. When you do more of a production per appearance analysis, is Markakis even "average"? 2. What do you do with that?

The second question is almost impossible to answer as a fan. At best all we can say is maybe you go with some kind of De Aza/Lough/Pearce platoon, and invest the money elsewhere. But as fans we have no idea what trades are potentially out there, the asking prices out there, etc. But the lack of a concrete answer to question one, really shouldn't have any bearing on the first question.

[DrungoHazewood]

Don't know' date=' but those are two separate questions. 1. When you do more of a production per appearance analysis, is Markakis even "average"? [/quote']

See my post, above. Among all RFers in 2014 Nick was above average in fWAR/PA. Among all outfielders, including all CFers, which is a little bit of an unfair comparision, he's 58th of 108.

So I suppose you could say that, barely, among all OFers, he's below average. But so are at least 20 other guys who you'd just assume are MLB regulars like Hamlilton and Revere and Hunter and Choo. All of them had worse WAR/PA numbers in 2014 than Markakis.

[El Gordo]

Don't know' date=' but those are two separate questions. 1. When you do more of a production per appearance analysis, is Markakis even "average"? 2. What do you do with that?

The second question is almost impossible to answer as a fan. At best all we can say is maybe you go with some kind of De Aza/Lough/Pearce platoon, and invest the money elsewhere. But as fans we have no idea what trades are potentially out there, the asking prices out there, etc. But the lack of a concrete answer to question one, really shouldn't have any bearing on the first question.[/quote']See Drungo's post above. The extra PA are not all that important.

[CA-ORIOLE]

See my post, above. Among all RFers in 2014 Nick was above average in fWAR/PA. Among all outfielders, including all CFers, which is a little bit of an unfair comparision, he's 58th of 108.

So I suppose you could say that, barely, among all OFers, he's below average. But so are at least 20 other guys who you'd just assume are MLB regulars like Hamlilton and Revere and Hunter and Choo. All of them had worse WAR/PA numbers in 2014 than Markakis.

Well. ok but those guys were much better than Markakis in the recent past and the fear is that Markakis will morph into something worse than them in the near future.