Where would Richie Martin fit on the O's top 30?

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, wildcard said:

If the A's system is top heavy Martin who move up  in the O's system.

Huh?

 

[wildcard]

3 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Huh?

 

If the A's system is top heavy and the O's system in not,  then Martin would move to a higher ranking in the O's system because there would be less players in the O's system that are better than him.

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, wildcard said:

If the A's system is top heavy and the O's system in not,  then Martin would move to a higher ranking in the O's system because there would be less players in the O's system that better than him.

Let us say that the top 5 guys in the A's system are better than the top guy in the O's system but once you get past the top five guys the depth of the O's farm system start showing. 

That would result in a case in which the A's system is ranked higher (more impact players) but a middling guy would drop when moving from the A's to the O's.

[LookinUp]

2 hours ago, Tony-OH said:

Sure, but who is that and how often are these guys available in the Rule 5 draft? Martin has the potential to be an everyday shortstop if his bat can continue to develop. That's a pretty good upside. His defense is getting overlooked a bit by some. If it's as good as advertised, there is a value in having that guy out there and see if his bat develops. 

Fair enough. You take the BPA at #1 in this draft. If he's the guy, sure, take a flyer. I guess what I'm trying to say is I care much less about using the Rule V draft for need. I'd rather go with potential, regardless of need. The fact our sorry 2019 team will need a SS means very little to me. I assume we can find a good glove to play there through other vehicles, if necessary.

[LookinUp]

2 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Let us say that the top 5 guys in the A's system are better than the top guy in the O's system but once you get past the top five guys the depth of the O's farm system start showing. 

That would result in a case in which the A's system is ranked higher (more impact players) but a middling guy would drop when moving from the A's to the O's.

And this essentially does describe the O's system, as far as I've heard. We have a bunch of middling guys who project to provide ML value, but few top/elite types unless the two young pitchers continue to really take off. This time next year could be very different with the #1 overall pick and theoretically continued dominance by Hall, at least.

[wildcard]

2 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Let us say that the top 5 guys in the A's system are better than the top guy in the O's system but once you get past the top five guys the depth of the O's farm system start showing. 

That would result in a case in which the A's system is ranked higher (more impact players) but a middling guy would drop when moving from the A's to the O's.

Ok, I see what you are saying.   But  the O's have a pretty good top 6 but after that it falls off.  

Harvey at #7 has good stuff but his durability issue make it uncertain if he will end up a start or a reliever.

Lowther #8 lack of a plus fastball make it hard to know if he will do well at levels above A+ ball

Knight #9  is so light its questionable if he will have the stamina to be a starter in the majors.

And so on.

Meanwhile Martin is ranked as having the ability to be a good major league defensive SS now and the O's have a opening for just such a player.   He bat came alive in the AA Texas League 300/368/439/807.   While someone may question whether he can maintain that kind of numbers  in the majors.   He is just turning 24 in December and has time on his side to improve.

I just don't understand why Martin would be in the 20's in the O's prospect list.

[Tony-OH]

58 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Interesting.  The A's have him as #12 in their farm system but he would be in the 20's for the O's farm system?   Is the O's farm system that much better than the A's farm system?

I think the caution with Martin is the two knee surgeries.  But, of course, Manny did have two knee surgeries.  And his improvement with the bat came after his 2nd knee surgery.

I think the A's have three other SS in their top 30.   That may be why they are willing to let Martin go.

Jorge Mateo has 80 speed  and a 60 arm at AAA. He is their #7 prospect.

Jeremy Eierman was in the New York Pen League  and is there #11 prospect.

Nick Allen is in A ball and is their #16 prospect.  He has 60 speed and a 60 arm.

 

I said he would be 16th, not in the 20s. I have no idea how good the A's system is, I just put him where I would put a guy who I see as a 40 now, 45/50 future, 50 Ceiling SS.

[Tony-OH]

24 minutes ago, LookinUp said:

Fair enough. You take the BPA at #1 in this draft. If he's the guy, sure, take a flyer. I guess what I'm trying to say is I care much less about using the Rule V draft for need. I'd rather go with potential, regardless of need. The fact our sorry 2019 team will need a SS means very little to me. I assume we can find a good glove to play there through other vehicles, if necessary.

I don't really disagree with taking the best BPA with the Orioles in their current state, but I if they similar players, than I take a position of need. Clearly if someone prove there is a better player than Martin available, then I would take them over Martin, but from what I've read (admittedly I haven't done detailed reading on this) Martin could be a good pick here if they think he has the upside to be an everyday SS. 

[wildcard]

16 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

I said he would be 16th, not in the 20s. I have no idea how good the A's system is, I just put him where I would put a guy who I see as a 40 now, 45/50 future, 50 Ceiling SS.

OOOOOOOOk,  I must have read your post wrong 

A's rate him a 50 overall now but that is not you so I can see there are differences.

[Camden_yardbird]

I think some people are looking at a hole on the Orioles team and projecting more value into Martin for that reason as well.  Rebuilding is a process and that process takes more than a few seasons.  If the best available player is a 1B with high K and low BB numbers (and there are a few this year) then you draft them and make it work.

Copy paste from: https://whattheheckbobby.blogspot.com/2018/09/2018-rule-5-draft-primer-and-eligible.html?m=1

ARIZONA (40-man roster at 38 as of 11/20)
#7 OF Marcus Wilson
#11 RHP Taylor Clarke - Contract selected
#14 RHP Emilio Vargas - Contract selected
#20 3B/1B Kevin Cron - Contract selected
#22 LHP Alex Young
#23 LHP Cody Reed

ATLANTA (40-man roster at 40 as of 11/20)
#20 RHP Huascar Ynoa - Contract selected
#21 RHP Patrick Weigel - Contract selected
#22 OF Travis Demeritte
#27 C Alex Jackson - Contract selected
#28 RHP Josh Graham
#29 RHP Jacob Webb - Contract selected

BALTIMORE (40-man roster at 40 as of 11/20)
#6 RHP Dillon Tate - Contract selected
#29 LHP Luis Gonzalez

BOSTON (40 man roster at 39 as of 11/20)
#1 3B/1B Michael Chavis - Contract selected
#7 LHP Darwinzon Hernandez - Contract selected
#10 1B Josh Ockimey
#15 RHP Travis Lakins - Contract selected
#21 LHP Jhonathan Diaz
#23 C Roldani Baldwin
#27 RHP Roniel Raudes
#30 RHP Denyi Reyes - Contract selected

CHICAGO CUBS (40-man roster at 39 as of 11/20)

#8 LHP Justin Steele - Contract selected

#17 RHP Trevor Clifton

#26 RHP Erling Moreno

 

CHICAGO WHITE SOX (40-man roster at 38 as of 11/20)

#3 RHP Dylan Cease - Contract selected

#19 LHP Kodi Medeiros - Contract selected

#20 RHP Jordan Stephens - Contract selected

#22 C Seby Zavala - Contract selected

#26 RHP Spencer Adams

 

CINCINNATI (40-man roster at 39 as of 11/20)

#13 RHP Jimmy Herget - Contract selected

#22 OF Michael Beltre

#25 OF/1B Nick Longhi

 

CLEVELAND (40-man roster at 40 as of 11/20)

#7 1B Bobby Bradley - Contract selected

#8 LHP Sam Hentges - Contract selected

#22 OF Oscar Gonzalez

 

COLORADO (40-man roster at 40 as of 11/20)

#9 OF Sam Hilliard - Contract selected

#10 RHP Ryan Castellani - Contract selected

#17 RHP Justin Lawrence - Contract selected

#19 LHP Breiling Eusebio

#23 1B Roberto Ramos

#25 1B Brian Mundell

#27 C Dom Nunez

DETROIT (40-man roster at 39 as of 11/20)

#3 RHP Franklin Perez - Contract selected

#19 OF Jose Azocar

#24 LHP Tyler Alexander

#29 OF Derek Hill

 

HOUSTON (40-man roster at 38 as of 11/20)

#12 RHP Rogelio Armenteros - Contract selected

#15 C Garrett Stubbs - Contract selected

#17 RHP Riley Ferrell

#24 SS Jonathan Arauz

 

KANSAS CITY (40-man roster at 40 as of 11/20)

#11 RHP Josh Staumont - Contract selected
#26 RHP Scott Blewett - Contract selected

#28 IF D.J. Burt

#29 LHP Foster Griffin

#30 RHP Ofreidy Gomez

 

LOS ANGELES ANGELS (40-man roster at 40 as of 11/20)

#8 LHP Jose Suarez - Contract selected

#10 SS/2B Luis Rengifo - Contract selected

#15 SS Leonardo Rivas

#18 RHP Luis Pena

#28 RHP Joe Gatto

 

LOS ANGELES DODGERS (40-man roster at 40 as of 11/20)

#2 C Keibert Ruiz - Contract selected
#10 RHP Yadier Alvarez - Contract selected

#13 3B/1B Edwin Rios - Contract selected

#19 2B/SS Drew Jackson
#21 1B/3B Matt Beaty - Contract selected

#24 3B/1B Cristian Santana

#29 RHP Andrew Sopko

 

MIAMI (40-man roster at 40 as of 11/20)

#2 OF Monte Harrison - Contract selected

#6 RHP Jorge Guzman - Contract selected

#9 2B Isan Diaz - Contract selected

#17 RHP Jordan Yamamoto - Contract selected

#18 2B/SS Christopher Torres

#26 OF Brayan Hernandez

#30 LHP McKenzie Mills
 

MILWAUKEE (40-man roster at 39 as of 11/20)

#10 1B Jake Gatewood

#13 RHP Trey Supak - Contract selected

#15 OF Troy Stokes Jr. - Contract selected

#17 RHP Cody Ponce

#28 RHP Carlos Herrera

 

MINNESOTA (40-man roster at 39 as of 11/20)

#4 SS Nick Gordon - Contract selected

#13 OF Lamonte Wade - Contract selected

#15 2B Luis Arraez - Contract selected

#16 1B Lewin Diaz

#22 LHP Tyler Jay

 

NEW YORK METS (40-man roster at 38 as of 11/20)

#19 2B Luis Carpio

#21 3B David Thompson

#25 C Ali Sanchez

#27 C Patrick Mazeika

 

NEW YORK YANKEES (40-man roster at 39 as of 11/20)

#27 1B/3B Dermis Garcia

 

OAKLAND (40-man roster at 39 as of 11/20)

#9 RHP James Kaprielian - Contract selected

#12 SS Richie Martin

#15 RHP Grant Holmes - Contract selected

#27 RHP James Naile

#28 RHP Carlos Ramirez (MiLB FA)

#30 OF Skye Bolt - Contract selected

 

PHILADELPHIA (40-man roster at 38 as of 11/20)

#3 RHP Adonis Medina - Contract selected

#11 SS Arquimedes Gamboa - Contract selected

#12 2B Daniel Brito

#16 IF Jose Gomez

#27 RHP Tom Eshelman

 

PITTSBURGH (40-man roster at 40 as of 11/20)

#1 RHP Mitch Keller - Contract selected

#5 SS Cole Tucker - Contract selected

#13 OF Jason Martin - Contract selected

#19 RHP Gage Hinsz

#24 LHP Brandon Waddell

#28 LHP Domingo Robles

 

SAN DIEGO (40-man roster at 40 as of 11/20)

#5 RHP Chris Paddack - Contract selected

#12 RHP Anderson Espinoza - Contract selected

#25 C Austin Allen - Contract selected

#28 OF Edward Olivares - Contract selected

#29 RHP Pedro Avila - Contract selected

 

SAN FRANCISCO (40-man roster at 37 as of 11/20)

#8 OF Sandro Fabian

#11 RHP Logan Webb - Contract selected

#18 RHP Juan de Paula

#19 RHP Melvin Adon - Contract selected

#23 RHP Jordan Johnson

#28 SS/2B C.J. Hinojosa

#30 RHP Sam Coonrod - Contract selected

 

SEATTLE (40-man roster at 35 as of 11/20)

#6 OF Braden Bishop - Contract selected
#9 RHP Erik Swanson - Contract selected

#17 RHP Art Warren

#21 RHP Rob Whalen

#23 OF Ian Miller

#26 OF Anthony Jimenez

#27 OF Luis Liberato

#29 OF Ronald Rosario

#30 LHP Anthony Misiewicz

 

ST. LOUIS (40-man roster at 40 as of 11/20)

#4 RHP Ryan Helsley - Contract selected

#11 2B Max Schrock

#13 LHP Genesis Cabrera - Contract selected

#14 RHP Junior Fernandez

#20 IF Ramon Urias - Contract selected

#23 OF Wadye Ynfante

 

TAMPA BAY (40-man roster at 40 as of 11/20)

#4 OF Jesus Sanchez - Contract selected

#17 OF Joe McCarthy - Contract selected

#29 RHP Ian Gibaut - Contract selected

 

TEXAS (40-man roster at 37 as of 11/20)

#6 LHP Taylor Hearn - Contract selected

#17 OF Pedro Gonzalez

#22 OF Scott Heineman - Contract selected
#30 RHP Edgar Arredondo

 

TORONTO (40-man roster at 40 as of 11/20)

#11 RHP Hector Perez - Contract selected
#22 RHP Trent Thornton - Contract selected

#25 OF Forrest Wall

#28 RHP Jordan Romano

 

WASHINGTON (40-man roster at 37 as of 11/20)

#13 OF Telmito Agustin

#17 RHP James Bourque - Contract selected

#23 RHP Luis Reyes

#24 RHP Tomas Alastre

#25 1B/OF Jose Marmolejos

#29 1B/3B Drew Ward

[sportsfan8703]

4 hours ago, Moose Milligan said:

Ohhhh baby, Rule 5, here we come!

What if Elias doesn't select Richie Martin?  Will that be the first blow to the @wildcard /Elias bromance?  I'm sitting on the edge of my seat!

If he doesn’t select him it’s because the “analytics” didn’t support it. Haha. Get used to that reason for everything. 

[Aristotelian]

Richie Martin - A's #12/.807 OPS in AA/60 Arm/60 Field

Drew Jackson - Dodgers #19/.804 OPS in AA/70 Arm/65 Run/55 Field

Max Schrock - Cardinals #11/.627 OPS in AAA but .802 OPS in AA/55 Hit/50 Run

Jackson is interesting as well...

 

 

 

[Moose Milligan]

6 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

If he doesn’t select him it’s because the “analytics” didn’t support it. Haha. Get used to that reason for everything. 

Looking forward to the day where wildcard realizes that Elias is not infallible.

[Frobby]

15 minutes ago, wildcard said:

OOOOOOOOk,  I must have read your post wrong 

A's rate him a 50 overall now but that is not you so I can see there are differences.

You say “A’s rate him a 50” — I doubt the A’s are making public their ratings of their own players.   Where are you getting this?

[wildcard]

18 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

Richie Martin - A's #12/.807 OPS in AA/60 Arm/60 Field

Drew Jackson - Dodgers #19/.804 OPS in AA/70 Arm/65 Run/55 Field

Max Schrock - Cardinals #11/.627 OPS in AAA but .802 OPS in AA/55 Hit/50 Run

Jackson is interesting as well...

 

 

 

Agree, Jackson is interesting.