A couple of thoughts about our current catchers and Adley Rutschman

[Can_of_corn]

12 minutes ago, Philip said:

Then stop. Life is too short to deal with contentious people.

You would qualify. 

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, tntoriole said:

 

Backup catchers are a dime a dozen. 

Can get one for a Trumbo.

[Frobby]

7 minutes ago, tntoriole said:

That is an interesting concept...

Players who we either drafted and developed who became true cornerstones for us. 

Hmmm ...Brooks Robinson,  Jim Palmer,  Cal, Eddie Murray...that’s all I have.   

You could say Mike Mussina but he left..which isn’t a real cornerstone-ish attribute.  Same way with Manny. 

And none were the 1-1 pick. 

That’s too high a standard.  I consider guys like Adam Jones and Nick Markakis to be cornerstone players.   You need 3-4 of them to anchor your team.  

[tntoriole]

39 minutes ago, Frobby said:

That’s too high a standard.  I consider guys like Adam Jones and Nick Markakis to be cornerstone players.   You need 3-4 of them to anchor your team.  

Maybe so....But cornerstones in buildings are usually singular as all the other stones are laid in relationship to it....to have more than one is rare and usually brings championship runs....

Nick?  Not quite good enough to be a cornerstone...he would be in the Boog Powell category for me..  Plus Nick left, which cornerstones don’t do...Same way with Adam...we didn’t develop or sign him AND he left...

Arbitrary, sure, but I view cornerstones as franchise defining players that are Hall of Famers usually. . 

[Frobby]

56 minutes ago, tntoriole said:

Maybe so....But cornerstones in buildings are usually singular as all the other stones are laid in relationship to it....to have more than one is rare and usually brings championship runs....

Nick?  Not quite good enough to be a cornerstone...he would be in the Boog Powell category for me..  Plus Nick left, which cornerstones don’t do...Same way with Adam...we didn’t develop or sign him AND he left...

Arbitrary, sure, but I view cornerstones as franchise defining players that are Hall of Famers usually. . 

If those are your criteria, then the odds of getting a cornerstone player at 1-1 are greater than 10-1 against.   

[orioles22]

4 hours ago, Frobby said:

That’s too high a standard.  I consider guys like Adam Jones and Nick Markakis to be cornerstone players.   You need 3-4 of them to anchor your team. 

I agree. Surhoff and Palmeiro were cornerstone players for a time.

How many Hall of Fame type players just stay with one team for their entire careers? Not many..

[DrungoHazewood]

10 hours ago, tntoriole said:

That is an interesting concept...

Players who we either drafted and developed who became true cornerstones for us. 

Hmmm ...Brooks Robinson,  Jim Palmer,  Cal, Eddie Murray...that’s all I have.   

You could say Mike Mussina but he left..which isn’t a real cornerstone-ish attribute.  Same way with Manny. 

And none were the 1-1 pick. 

Of course Books and Palmer predated the draft.  They were signed as amateur free agents.

If your criteria for cornerstone is no-doubt HOFers who played their whole career with a team there can't be a dozen of them in MLB history.  The odds of drafting one today could be rounded off to 0.0000.

[DrungoHazewood]

6 hours ago, orioles22 said:

I agree. Surhoff and Palmeiro were cornerstone players for a time.

How many Hall of Fame type players just stay with one team for their entire careers? Not many..

Brooks and Palmer. Musial. Gehrig. Ott.  Schmidt. Yaz. Ripken.  Kaline.  Brett. Chipper. DiMaggio.  Yount.  Mantle.  Gehringer.  Bagwell, sort of.  Appling.  Bench.  Gwynn.  Larkin. Banks.  Yogi.  Koufax. Feller.  Johnson. Gibson. Rivera.  Hubbell.  There a a few more, but that's pretty far down the list.

I was a little lite saying a dozen.  But it's not a lot.   And there are less now that players have a choice, at least after draft, development, and 6-7 years of service.  If that's your definition of cornerstone there's still roughly a zero percent chance of getting one in the draft.

[Aglets]

6 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

Brooks and Palmer. Musial. Gehrig. Ott.  Schmidt. Yaz. Ripken.  Kaline.  Brett. Chipper. DiMaggio.  Yount.  Mantle.  Gehringer.  Bagwell, sort of.  Appling.  Bench.  Gwynn.  Larkin. Banks.  Yogi.  Koufax. Feller.  Johnson. Gibson. Rivera.  Hubbell.  There a a few more, but that's pretty far down the list.

I was a little lite saying a dozen.  But it's not a lot.   And there are less now that players have a choice, at least after draft, development, and 6-7 years of service.  If that's your definition of cornerstone there's still roughly a zero percent chance of getting one in the draft.

Mike Trout apparently.   Still can't quite explain why he's staying out there given their track record.

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, Aglets said:

Mike Trout apparently.   Still can't quite explain why he's staying out there given their track record.

He's happy there?

I'm more confused about how they manage to not win despite some of the talent on their roster.

[DrungoHazewood]

2 minutes ago, Aglets said:

Mike Trout apparently.   Still can't quite explain why he's staying out there given their track record.

He's been there since he was a teenager and likes the team and the weather and the area and his $35M a year through the age of 38?  Maybe his wife and kids like LA.

[makoman]

If your criteria for success excludes Griffey and Arod it’s probably too harsh. 

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

3 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

He's happy there?

I'm more confused about how they manage to not win despite some of the talent on their roster.

I’d be happy too if I was on a team that is going to pay me $500M+ in career earnings.

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, OsFanSinceThe80s said:

I’d be happy too if I was on a team that is going to pay me $500M+ in career earnings.

He's left money on the table.

[Ohfan67]

13 hours ago, tntoriole said:

Maybe so....But cornerstones in buildings are usually singular as all the other stones are laid in relationship to it....to have more than one is rare and usually brings championship runs....

Nick?  Not quite good enough to be a cornerstone...he would be in the Boog Powell category for me..  Plus Nick left, which cornerstones don’t do...Same way with Adam...we didn’t develop or sign him AND he left...

Arbitrary, sure, but I view cornerstones as franchise defining players that are Hall of Famers usually. . 

Using your construction analysis: EVERY building has a cornerstone (every building made of stone, that is). You were proposing a definition of cornerstone player that would exclude all players on many winning teams (many winning teams do not have a hall of fame type player...maybe even the vast majority of most winning teams?). Is that a correct interpretation on my part?