The value of the slots...

[Frobby]

6 minutes ago, atomic said:

That will be at least 5 years from now and what will you give us if one of them becomes a star? The tradings slots was about not spending money. 

Maybe yes and maybe no.    They wanted to keep Araujo.    They didn’t want to trade a player in order to keep him.   So, they traded slots.    

What if one of them becomes a star?    Well, we will never know if the Orioles had ever heard of that player or targeted him.     At the end of the day, we went from having one DSL team to two, and signed 47 players in the last 12 months (30 since Elias arrived), in addition to the incumbents on the DSL roster.   We’ve got 56 DSL roster spots.    I don’t know enough about how Dominican baseball works to know if teams warehouse a bunch of other players who aren’t on the DSL roster, or how soon after they’re signed they will be on a DSL roster.    So I’m not sure what we would have done with additional players if we’d used more slots to sign them instead of trading those slots away.    

[NCRaven]

This is a silly argument.  The Orioles spent at least $750k and more on similar players or they couldn’t have filled two DSL rosters.  Most of these guys are filler with the hope that one or two will pop.  The issue is the lack of higher end signings, not the failure to sign 21 low end guys at less than $50k each.

[LTO's]

16 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Altuve signed for 15K.

Now do Eloy Jimenez, Vlad Jr, Wander Franco, Gleyber Torres, Gary Sanchez, Juan Soto etc etc. Even some of the "cheaper" diamonds in the rough like Robles, Acuna and Tatis are in the hundreds of thousands. If your supposition is correct that the Os should fill their DSL rosters with <50k signings on the off chance they find an Altuve then it would've already happened!!! They've been doing it for well over a decade now.

[sportsfan8703]

6 minutes ago, LookinUp said:

Right. It's essentially another full DSL team. Not sure why that cannot happen, but that's what it would have taken.

[Edit: looks like Frobby says we already did add another DSL team.]

Couldn't they just train and scrimmage at the Cub's DSL facility/Academy?  Just because they are signed doesn't mean they have to play in official games.

Maybe they can house this many players because they have superior training facilities.    

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, LTO's said:

Now do Eloy Jimenez, Vlad Jr, Wander Franco, Gleyber Torres, Gary Sanchez, Juan Soto etc etc. Even some of the "cheaper" diamonds in the rough like Robles, Acuna and Tatis are in the hundreds of thousands. If your supposition is correct that the Os should fill their DSL rosters with <50k signings on the off chance they find an Altuve then it would've already happened!!! They've been doing it for well over a decade now.

All I was saying is that it is possible to hit big on one of these signings.

Btw Acuna signed for 100K.

[Frobby]

Just now, LTO's said:

Now do Eloy Jimenez, Vlad Jr, Wander Franco, Gleyber Torres, Gary Sanchez, Juan Soto etc etc. Even some of the "cheaper" diamonds in the rough like Robles, Acuna and Tatis are in the hundreds of thousands. If your supposition is correct that the Os should fill their DSL rosters with <50k signings on the off chance they find an Altuve then it would've already happened!!! They've been doing it for well over a decade now.

It’s an obvious fact signing 100 $25 k players gives you a better chance of one of them hitting than if you only sign 50 such players.    But it seems like there would be some practical constraints on keeping all those players, training them, etc.    

[Frobby]

2 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Couldn't they just train and scrimmage at the Cub's DSL facility/Academy?  Just because they are signed doesn't mean they have to play in official games.

Maybe they can house this many players because they have superior training facilities.    

Yes, I would like to know how all this works.    I’m pretty sure most teams have more players under contract than are on their DSL rosters.   How many more, what exactly they do with them, etc., I don’t know.   

[LTO's]

32 minutes ago, Frobby said:

It’s an obvious fact signing 100 $25 k players gives you a better chance of one of them hitting than if you only sign 50 such players.    But it seems like there would be some practical constraints on keeping all those players, training them, etc.    

Sure. My point is that the Orioles HAVE signed 100s of these players and they haven't amounted to anything. They won't make any headway here unless they start continually giving out 100k+ and million dollar bonuses. They have already spent more than they've ever spent and we've been told that will continue this summer. I'm taking Elias at his word here because he's already shown progress in this area and I fully trust Perez's track record. Trust it a lot more than a few grumps on here to be perfectly honest.

[Can_of_corn]

6 minutes ago, LTO's said:

Sure. My point is that the Orioles HAVE signed 100s of these players and they haven't amounted to anything. They won't make any headway here unless they start continually giving out 100k+ and million dollar bonuses. They have already spent more than they've ever spent and we've been told that will continue this summer. I'm taking Elias at his word here because he's already shown progress in this area and I fully trust Perez's track record. Trust it a lot more than a few grumps on here to be perfectly honest.

How much did Schoop and EdRod sign for?

I mean they haven't spent in years and they do have some success stories.

[SteveA]

My theory:   until last July significant international spending was forbidden and the exceptions like Schoop, Alvarez, Urrutia, Reyes had to be cleared by the warehouse.

The brothers took over sometime in the summer.    They were smart enough, or got good information enough, to learn that yes, you can still get SOME guys after the very beginning of the signing period.    But MOST of the good ones were gone.   It didn't make a lot of sense for them to entrust Duquette with doing anything there on short notice when our scouting presence had been minimal in the DR & Venezuela anyway.

Then came the gap between Duquette and Elias, when the Mesa brothers happened to come up.   At this point the brothers at least showed some interest, they sent Brady and others down to look at them.   But they were in the midst of an extensive GM search, we had a skeleton crew front office, and they decided not to go big and outbid everyone for the Mesas.

Then they hired Elias.   And probably asked him frankly... if we give you a big budget to use all of your slot space for the remainder of the 2018/19 signing period, will you get the same bang for your buck you would get for it in next year's signing period?   And he probably gave an honest answer of no... there might be some diamonds in the rough but the return on investment wouldn't be as good as jumping in the deep end at the start of a signing period.   So they said OK, then let's not go in strong in the 18-19 period, pick up a few guys here and there, maybe if some huge guy comes up we can revisit, but in general you shouldn't spend much.   So Corn could well be right.   And that's why Elias made a few signings, traded away a lot more space for whatever he could scrounge up.

So it's very possible there is a low budget for signings this period that ends in a couple days, but Elias might well be allowed to spend it all in the period starting July 2.   And the sequence of events that led up to that aren't that unreasonable, illogical, or sinister.

[Jammer7]

1 hour ago, atomic said:

Some people will  make excuses no matter what the team does. Infrastructure? LOL. Every other team has a brand new multi million dollar facility.  You can’t even find a photo of the Orioles facility.

Well, that is to my point. Years of neglect has brought us to now. It doesn’t happen overnight, and it looks to me like they’ve made significant progress. At least that is the spin. I’ll believe it when it happens, but I actually believe it will. Otherwise, why hire Elias and Perez?

Reason is not an excuse. There’ll be plenty of time to sharpen the pitchfork later if it’s the same ol same ol.

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, Jammer7 said:

Well, that is to my point. Years of neglect has brought us to now. It doesn’t happen overnight, and it looks to me like they’ve made significant progress. At least that is the spin. I’ll believe it when it happens, but I actually believe it will. Otherwise, why hire Elias and Perez?

Reason is not an excuse. There’ll be plenty of time to sharpen the pitchfork later if it’s the same ol same ol.

Sounds like someone has never sharpened a pitchfork before.  It isn't a thing you want to rush.  Best to have it nice a sharp in case you need it in a hurray.

[Frobby]

7 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

How much did Schoop and EdRod sign for?

I mean they haven't spent in years and they do have some success stories.

I think he’s making a different point.   He’s saying the cheaper signings occasionally pan out, but don’t come close to substituting for signing the higher bonus, more highly sought after players.    That seems pretty self-evident.    

EdRod got $175 k, Schoop got $90 k.

 

[Jammer7]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

Sounds like someone has never sharpened a pitchfork before.  It isn't a thing you want to rush.  Best to have it nice a sharp in case you need it in a hurray.

Not proficient, no. Not yet, but i’m warming up to it. Besides, a dull one probably hurts more.

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, Jammer7 said:

Not proficient, no. Not yet, but i’m warming up to it. Besides, a dull one probably hurts more.

More likely to hurt yourself than anyone else with a dull pitchfork.  You get to stabbing and you have to press too hard to get good penetration and Boom, you throw your back out.