Bedard on the block?

[Sports Guy]

And Mike Mussina

And Mora and Gibbons...Oops!

[Wadester]

And Mora and Gibbons...Oops!

[twoBshorty]

I'm sure Bedard would just LOVE to play for a team that threatens to punish him for not signing an extension by trading him away from the Canadian border. He'd be just great in the clubhouse and would really love being coerced into hanging around on a losing franchise for a few more years. What a fantastic idea. It wouldn't make the Orioles look completely stupid and petty or anything like that.

[dorfmac]

I realize the odds of us trading Bedard are minimal, and I am definately not a proponent of trading him, but if I were to be swayed it would be by the Brewers. They have extreme pitching concerns, especially that Sheets is now on the DL. I would definately see if we could get Gallardo, Braun and Mench. 3 players in return for Bedard - one middle of the order hitter, one potential ace replacement, and a part time player with pop who we could platoon, or use to completely replace Payton. Sure, it would only add to our overload at LF, but to get 2 pieces like Braun and Gallardo, it'd be worth it.

[Eight]

Yes, in a few month sample size of this year, he is pitching worse than DCab. Wow!

In a 3-4 season sample size, Cabrera has a 91 ERA+ in 103 starts while Santana has an 88 ERA+ in 75 starts.

[Flosman]

In a 3-4 season sample size, Cabrera has a 91 ERA+ in 103 starts while Santana has an 88 ERA+ in 75 starts.

Remember when Santana alone was enough for Miggy...In some people's eyes.

[Sports Guy]

In a 3-4 season sample size, Cabrera has a 91 ERA+ in 103 starts while Santana has an 88 ERA+ in 75 starts.

This is Santana's third season.

His best year thus far, last year, was far better, ERA wise, than any season DCab has had.

His first season, his ERA was better than 2 of the 3 years in DCab's career.

He has been awful this year, thus driving up numbers like his ERA+.

[Eight]

This is Santana's third season.

His best year thus far, last year, was far better, ERA wise, than any season DCab has had.

His first season, his ERA was better than 2 of the 3 years in DCab's career.

He has been awful this year, thus driving up numbers like his ERA+.

Who cares about ERA? We know that Santana has struggled mightily outside of Los Angeles, and we know that the Angels play in a better pitcher's park?

ERA+   DC   Santana04       96   --05       92   9006       95   10207       83   68

ERA+   DC   Santanayr 1     96   90yr 2     92   102yr 3     95   68yr 4     83   --

FIP      DC     Santana04       5.16   --05       4.01   4.4006       4.30   4.3807       5.11   5.70 

FIP      DC     Santanayr 1     5.16   4.40yr 2     4.01   4.38yr 3     4.30   5.70yr 4     5.11   --

If you don't want to look at career numbers because Santana's bad season drives his numbers up (of course it does, that's the point), looking at them on a seasonal basis gives the edge to Cabrera as well. Not sure how one could dispute that Cabrera's performance to date hasn't been superior to that of Santana.

[luismatos]

The weird thing for me is that I can't remember many people thinking that Santana and Aybar was enough for Miggy. I thought most people were saying that Santana and Wood or Santana, Aybar and Adenhart. I would still do either of those trades. There was also a bunch of talk about Kendrick and Kotchman. So, Idk, I think there were a lot of good packages thrown around that I wish were still on the table from the Angels, because Miggy is not that good anymore. Please spare me on the Santana, Aybar stuff. People wanted more than that. At this point, do I think that would have been a good trade...no. Would that trade have been terrible? no. Somewhere in between. But, again if we got Adenhart with that...it would have been worth it.

Look, I'm not saying we should trade Bedard, because as everyone has pointed out...Bedard is amazing. But, I would listen. And if something like Justin Upton, Quentin and someone popped up...i might be tempted. Or if Fernando Martinez, Pelfrey and Gomez/Milledge popped up, I might be tempted...or if Hughes, Chamberlain, and Tabata popped up...I could hear that.

Besides, I think we are talking about trading Bedard right now at a point where we are closer to the point when we were trying to trade Miggy when he first requested a trade and we could have gotten Mark Prior and Felix Pie and flipped Prior to the rangers for Tex. Would I rather have Tex and Pie on this team right now than Miggy? Darn tootin'!

[NoVaO]

There really isn't a more meaningless argument when discussing trades than looking at old trades that did or didn't get done and using that to prove we shouldn't make a future trade. What the hell does Santana and Aybar have to do with trading Bedard? Nothing. Prospects are risky, sure. But the upside of the kind of prospects you could get for Bedard is tremendous. The players brought back in a package for Bedard can turn around a franchise and the worst thing to come out of those prospects falling on their face? 5th place instead of 4th place....big deal.

Nobody should be untouchable. You ask yourself what the upside and downside to a certain trade is, and then determine if the trade will ultimately make your team better. The downside is small in terms of record, and as stated before the upside is huge. The risk is lessened by the quality of the prospects we get in return.

Santana and Aybar, BTW, doesn't come close to what we could get for Bedard.

The price 3 or 4 weeks ago, for me at least, was 2 top prospects close to or MLB ready and then a high upside lower level prospect. I still think its pretty similar, but I would probably ask for an expiring contract or two in return so I could pile up some draft picks.

In all honesty, other stuff has to go down before Bedard is shopped. Get rid of the dead weight first, see what Cabrera's market is, and trade Tejada. Then deal with Bedard (extend him or trade him)

[Dipper9]

Isnt it the concesnsus he wants to play in Canada? Trading him as far away as possible wouldnt sit well if that is true. If he says no that would mean he doesnt want to be an Oriole. So give him his wish and trade him.

If it is obvious he has no intention of being an Oriole. If both the offers are the same and one is farther away from Canada, trade him there.

This isn't 1912. We have these fancy dancy things called airplanes now. It doesn't matter if he plays in Baltimore or Texas, he's still only a plane flight away from Canada! One or two hours longre on a plane flight is not a threat. Like SG has said numerous times, Bedard would laugh this off!

[Dipper9]

Honestly, srh, what does this even mean? It isn't about whether Santana and Aybar are better than Cabrera and Fahey. It is about having finite resources to trade. We need to trade for players that will improve us either today or in the long run. Trading Tejada for Santana/Aybar was debatable at the time that it was discussed, but it shouldn't be now. Those two players together don't provide nearly the value of Tejada AND there should be an escalation factor for the single player in one player vs two player evaluations since the one player side has a second player on the roster somewhere that is there instead of the proposed second player.

BB is saying that when you make trades for guys that haven't produced at the ML level, you're taking a risk. That doesn't mean it shouldn't be done, but it is an important point.

At this point, I would hope that everyone who was advocating Tejada for Santana/Aybar last year (and calling our FO names for not making the move) is ready to admit they were wrong and the FO was right.

I know we bad mouth the FO ALOT around here for not making moves, but the fact of the matter is that many of the moves we want them to make look awful after a year or two passes by.

That said, I sure would love to have Adrian Gonzalez here at first base right about now! Wasn't he available for Ponson a year or two back?

[Dr. FLK]

LOL, you may want to look at some stats. Santana was just sent to the minors by a team in a play-off race and w/o a good option to take his spot because he was pitching so badly that he couldn't even give his team a chance to win. His value is almost zero right now.

Sounds a lot like a certain pitcher on our team that everyone wants to get rid of. So, we should trade away our version of this guy, and then trade our best offensive player for his equally-inept replacement? Got it...

[Dr. FLK]

Wow, bravo, someone has been schooled. BTW, he knows all this but is bravely trying to defend his original position from last year that Santana/Aybar for Tejada is a no brainer and the FO are incompetent boobs.

Well, I agreed with the first part last year, and I still agree with the second part this year. But, my opinion of Santana/Aybar has drastically changed, and it doesn't seem like his has much (or else his opinion of Miggy has dropped equally).

[osfan83]

One thing to keep in mind, Bedard only helps you every 5th game. If you can trade him for two guys that help you EVERY game then do it. We would still have Loewen, Guthrie, Olsen, Penn, D-Cab available to pitch. I would sacrifice one game to make the other 4 stronger.