Bedard on the block?

[Dr. FLK]

The point of these sorts of discussions is to temper the criticism that gets hurled about by all the armchair GMs on this board when moves don't get made. Using history to prove that sometimes non-moves are better choices than moves for the sake of moves is a valid exercise.

With all that said, I'm not against trading anybody on the current team. I'm just not going to MANDATE that something happen to prove that "we're doing stuff". Every single trade option needs to be evaluated at the time on the merits. Sweeping statements like "we definitely must trade X, Y, and Z" are the quickest ways to make stupid decisions and get back poor value. Santana/Aybar is a great example of this type of thing.

I sort of agree with this premise, but "stuff" does NEED to be done. If they can't get a good offer for those guys, they still had better do something. This roster is a complete disaster. And, if a good deal doesn't fall in their lap, I for one have no faith that they will find something on their own. There needs to be some creativity and a proactive approach, which are both things that this organization has lacked for a decade. They don't need to make trades just for the sake of making trades. They do need to make trades because this team is a sinking ship and a trade is the only way to jettison the garbage and start to turn things around. I hate giving them a free pass because they aren't getting great offers. A good front office FINDS a way to improve, and ours never do. It's up to them to find good deals...and that is why they have jobs. Now, I want them to stop making excuses and DO SOMETHING.

[Dr. FLK]

I find it interesting that you feel this strongly that the team is performing poorly AND getting worse. I feel the exact opposite. I see a team that has played slightly better than 500 ball over the last 20-30 games despite missing two of their best right handed bats and despite having the two highest ranked pitching prospects on the DL. I see a team that is playing hard and can play with absolutely anyone.

We're not a play-off team yet, but we're definitely not a wreck. I think we're getting much better and it is only a matter of time before that becomes very clear. I think we will easily play 500 ball in the second half of the season and that we may even challenge 500 for the year. I actually believe that we're one exceptional hitter and one good hitter away from being a play-off team ASSUMING that Loewen and Penn are able to heal and pitch as expected moving forward.

I would like us to make some trades, but I'm not advocating completely blowing up anything. I think we should be trying to move Tejada, Ray, Bradford, and Trachsel, but we shouldn't trade any of them but Trachsel if we can't get the right value.

So, after 10 years of futility, they play slightly over .500 for 20 games, and they aren't a wreck? How many times does a team get a new manager, play with a new excitement for a while, and then crash back to the pathetic team they are they got the last guy canned?

What makes you think they are in position to turn any corner? They have virtually no hitters, and no real prospects to take over. They have no one for 1B, LF, DH. Mora is aging and declining. Who takes over at 3rd? C-Pat stinks. Who takes over in CF? Currently, there are THREE positions that have legit everyday players there who could be here in more than 2 years (SS, RF, 2B). And, that's assuming Miggy isn't dealt.

That leaves a whopping 6 or 7 starting jobs and a bench to fill up in the next few years. That doesn't sound like an offense poised at a playoff run to me.

[geschinger]

Yes, making moves for the sake of saying you did something is a very intelligent approach. Come on gesh, you're better than this.

ARE YOU ACTUALLY ADVOCATING THAT YOU WOULD TRADE TEJADA TODAY FOR SANTANA/AYBAR?

Nah, that was more frustration coming out that some seemingly think we can get better w/o doing something differently. We do need to do something unless we're going to happily enjoy a team for whom mediocrity is the ceiling until 2010 when the team will be forced by lots and lots of expiring contracts to do something.

With all that said, I'm not against trading anybody on the current team. I'm just not going to MANDATE that something happen to prove that "we're doing stuff". Every single trade option needs to be evaluated at the time on the merits. Sweeping statements like "we definitely must trade X, Y, and Z" are the quickest ways to make stupid decisions and get back poor value. Santana/Aybar is a great example of this type of thing.

This is a wise approach. We aren't in a position where we need to trade a particular individual player. But I think this franchise is incredibly inept if they aren't putting just about everybody's name out there and seeing what kind of returns are available. At some point there will have to be some trades because this core w/a few FA pieces added on is never going to be a postseason caliber club and many of the players we are counting on aren't getting any younger.

[thriftyorioles]

Then he doesnt sign an extension and we trade him for the best deal we can get now or in the offseason.

Not that hard to understand. If he doesnt want to sign, trade him.

I put it in bold so SG could get it through his head.

I think SG and all of us know what you are saying. I agree. Start working on an extension to buy up some arb years and 2 or 3 beyond. I think 5/65 is fair ang may get it done. He gets guranteed money to cover his a$$ next 2 years where if he blows out his arm he still gets the bigday and we have our #1 starter for the next 5 years.

If he says no way do sign an extension ever, you quietly work the phones and get 2-3 premium young position players for him.

Stop using the word "threaten" and people would agree. Threatening him is a self fulfilling philosophy and gurantees he says screw you and leaves.

[Sports Guy]

Wow, bravo, someone has been schooled. BTW, he knows all this but is bravely trying to defend his original position from last year that Santana/Aybar for Tejada is a no brainer and the FO are incompetent boobs.

LOL...Try again VaTech.

First of all, if you are smart as you think you are, you know that evaluating a trade or a FA signing based on a few months of good or poor play(this year) as about as stupid a thing as one can do. I guess you think the Mora extension was a good idea now, huh?

BTW, maybe by getting Santana, we have flipped him for someone else. Or maybe, it allowed us to flip another starter and we have another bat. The point beinbg that you can't look at one trade and assume that is the only thing that would have come out of it.

And you are also leaving out the Mazzone factor with Santana.

Secondly, he is the one who broke out the ERA+ numbers...I didn't look them up and i responded with both ERA numbers, which Santana was better in 2 of his 3 years...I figured this year really skewed the numbers.

I didn't look up any numbers or anything like that.

Also, Santana is younger than DCab, so what he was doing is more impressive because of age.

[NewMarketSean]

One thing to keep in mind, Bedard only helps you every 5th game. If you can trade him for two guys that help you EVERY game then do it. We would still have Loewen, Guthrie, Olsen, Penn, D-Cab available to pitch. I would sacrifice one game to make the other 4 stronger.

I agree, but who knows what kind of pitchers those other guys will be. Bedard is a #1 ace right now. I would still look to see what we could get for him, but I'd be very cautious in trading him.

You do have to start to think about whether or not Bedard will want to stay in Baltimore though. If the losing keeps up, you have to think that he'll want no part of an extension.

[StrangeLove]

Trade Bedard? Thats crazy talk.

You have to rebuild around something - if not starting pitching, then what?

As for not being able to sign him after 2009, if we can't re-sign one of our own, why does anyone think we could sign any premium player? He's going to be one of the leagues premiere pitchers - give him money worthy of that and he'll stick around.

[PaulFolk]

Isnt it the concesnsus he wants to play in Canada? Trading him as far away as possible wouldnt sit well if that is true. If he says no that would mean he doesnt want to be an Oriole. So give him his wish and trade him.

No! This is not the "consensus."

This is the off-hand comment of a Toronto Blue Jays blogger who says an unidentified O's executive suggested that maybe Bedard would be playing for the Blue Jays at some point. For all we know, the executive could've been some low-level guy who has never even spoken to Bedard and was merely guessing, "Hey, he's from Canada, maybe he'd like to play in Canada" without having any knowledge of the situation whatsoever.

It's unbelievable how many people have taken this as gospel. Can someone find a single other source that suggests Bedard is eager to bolt as soon as he becomes a FA? Any source at all?

[Sports Guy]

No! This is not the "consensus."

This is the off-hand comment of a Toronto Blue Jays blogger who says an unidentified O's executive suggested that maybe Bedard would be playing for the Blue Jays at some point. For all we know, the executive could've been some low-level guy who has never even spoken to Bedard and was merely guessing, "Hey, he's from Canada, maybe he'd like to play in Canada" without having any knowledge of the situation whatsoever.

It's unbelievable how many people have taken this as gospel. Can someone find a single other source that suggests Bedard is eager to bolt as soon as he becomes a FA? Any source at all?

Thank you Paul! Great post.

This is replacing the Bedard has no heart argument as the dumbest Bedard argument on the board.

Is there a quota or something i don't know about for poor Bedard arguments in one baseball season?

[nadecir]

This is the off-hand comment of a Toronto Blue Jays blogger who says an unidentified O's executive suggested that maybe Bedard would be playing for the Blue Jays at some point. For all we know, the executive could've been some low-level guy who has never even spoken to Bedard and was merely guessing, "Hey, he's from Canada, maybe he'd like to play in Canada" without having any knowledge of the situation whatsoever.

Hold on one second. I wouldn't take this information as gospel either, but the guy that wrote the column is just not some blogger. Jamie Campbell, wrote the piece, and it appeared on a Rogers Sportsnet web page. Rogers is a major Canadian sports broadcaster. Jamie Campbell appears on the air for Rogers Sportsnet.

Here's the section of the article Campbell wrote on Bedard possibly playing for Toronto that was published on May 22, 2007.

You can fill in other spots as you see fit, depending on which prospect you like the most: Shaun Marcum, Jesse Litsch, David Purcey, Ricky Romero. They all have a shot. Now, let’s add another name to the rotation:

Erik Bedard.

Sound a little far-fetched? A prominent member of the Orioles’ organization recently saddled up to me and whispered, “Three years from now, he’ll (Bedard) be playing for your team. Just watch.”

The comment caught me off-guard, simply because the contributor was someone who wouldn’t offer a line like that without consideration. But then I started piecing a few things together. First, Bedard was unable to come to terms on a long-term deal with Baltimore this year. As such, he’ll have two more years of arbitration eligibility before becoming a free agent.

There exists a wait-and-see aura about the Orioles, and privately, some have expressed concerns about a divided clubhouse that has Miguel Tejada and Melvin Mora on one side, and every one else on the other.

Secondly, unlike many established Canadian major leaguers, Bedard does not retreat to Florida or Arizona to conduct his off-season work-outs. He’s an old-fashioned type who simply sees no need, instead opting to throw off a constructed mound to various battery-mates in his uncle’s barn in Navan, Ontario.

Toronto is a four-hour drive from Navan, and his parents make the trip for most of the Orioles’ games at the Rogers Centre. How many games would the Bedards see if their son was playing for the Jays? And with so many available on Rogers Sportsnet, they’d have no need to pump “MLB Extra Innings” into the home television.

One other thing: the team Bedard followed as a kid? The Blue Jays, of course.

Jamie Campbell, almost certainly has baseball media credentials and been around baseball for a while. Here is his bio from the web site:

Jamie Campbell

Birthplace: Oakville, Ontario

Birth date: May 20, 1967

First media job: 1987 - Librarian at CBC Sports, Runner for Hockey Night in Canada

Career highlight: Catching David Ortiz' home run at the 2004 All-Star Game.

Special Interests/Hobbies: Spending time with my wife and son. Writing letters to retired baseball players. Reading. Sipping coffee at Starbucks.

Appears on: Jays on Rogers Sportsnet (play-by-play), MLB Playoffs on Rogers Sportsnet (host)

Perhaps Campbell was being a bit optimistic about the Bedard wanting to play in Toronto. But give this give information a little more credibility than you would an average fan's blog.

Why doesn't somebody from the Hangout see if they can get in touch with Jamie Campbell to see if they can get more information on the story?

[PaulFolk]

Hold on one second. I wouldn't take this information as gospel either, but the guy that wrote the column is just not some blogger. Jamie Campbell, wrote the piece, and it appeared on a Rogers Sportsnet web page. Rogers is a major Canadian sports broadcaster. Jamie Campbell appears on the air for Rogers Sportsnet.

Here's the section of the article Campbell wrote on Bedard possibly playing for Toronto that was published on May 22, 2007.

Okay. He's a sportscaster, not a blogger. That doesn't really change anything, IMO. Unless we hear from Bedard himself, it's still complete speculation. We don't know anything about the quoted executive or if he has any real knowledge of the Bedard situation. Campbell gives some good reasons for why Bedard might be inclined to play for the Blue Jays, but it's all speculation on the writer's part.

Bottom line-- this article carries very little weight with me, and it certainly shouldn't provoke this massive response of "Bedard doesn't want to be here!"

Personally, I think Bedard's decision will come down to the same thing as most major leaguers: $$$$$$$.

[weams]

If we want Bedard long term, we will have to overpay substantially now. Which, if the gamble that he stays healthy and good works out, would be quite the bargain.

We could not find a finer ACE to this staff.

[osfan83]

What's more valuable to a team rebuiding?

A starting pitcher that will appear in 32 games at best

or two everyday starters that will each see action in 140+ games if healthy?

[davearm]

Oh, give me a break. Yes, it is really that much worse than Tejada. Your two "what ifs" are borderline ridiculous. And SG, we're all aging. You act like everyone who is more than 30 years old is ready to fall apart at any moment and it is much, much more complicated than that. In an admittedly poor first half playing for a manager who quite obviously was affecting morale and with virtually nobody around him hitting at all, Tejada still had a 785 OPS.

You also can't have it both ways on his contract. Tejada's contract is a selling point and you know it.

We could trade Tejada the day he comes off the disabled list for more than the current value of Santana/Aybar. It was a bad trade. The FO was right to say no. Admit it and move on.

Not anymore it isn't.

[davearm]

No! This is not the "consensus."

This is the off-hand comment of a Toronto Blue Jays blogger who says an unidentified O's executive suggested that maybe Bedard would be playing for the Blue Jays at some point. For all we know, the executive could've been some low-level guy who has never even spoken to Bedard and was merely guessing, "Hey, he's from Canada, maybe he'd like to play in Canada" without having any knowledge of the situation whatsoever.

It's unbelievable how many people have taken this as gospel. Can someone find a single other source that suggests Bedard is eager to bolt as soon as he becomes a FA? Any source at all?

Sources suggesting Bedard is eager to bolt: 1

Sources suggesting Bedard is eager to stay: 0