Should the Orioles retire Mussina’s number?

[Tony-OH]

5 minutes ago, clapdiddy said:

Also...he never won a World Series with the Yankees.  

Truth. And it makes me smile every time I think about it. 

 

[Moose Milligan]

10 minutes ago, clapdiddy said:

Also...he never won a World Series with the Yankees.  

I think they won it the year after he retired, the year he finally won 20.  Made me smile a little bit, too.

 

[drdelaware]

If any number gets officially retired it should be Elrod Hendricks #44 (yes I know he wore #10 as a player).  

[Moose Milligan]

People love to prop up the "He didn't win a World Series" here as a reason to not retire his number.  And that's fine.  

Two hypotheticals for you to consider:

1.  Gunnar Henderson has a career that goes down in history as one of the greatest SS/3B of all time.  .300/.400/.500 slash line (Chipper Jones territory), 500+ homers, an MVP award, WAR, WAR, WAR, some Gold Gloves and a bunch of All-Star appearances.  He is a slam dunk, first ballot Hall of Famer.

He does this all in an Orioles uniform.  And while Gunnar's teams make the playoffs several times over the course of his career and he has some big moments, the Orioles don't win a World Series.

Are you in favor of retiring his number?  Or are you still going to hold that line?

2.  

Gunnar Henderson is having a scalding hot 2028 season when he goes down in early May with a torn ACL and he's done for the year.  

The Orioles go on to win the World Series.  It is the only season in Gunnar's career where the Orioles win the World Series.  Like the above hypothetical, he goes on to have a ridiculous career and the ACL tear is a bump in the road for him on his way to Cooperstown.  He finishes his career as an Oriole.

Technically, in this hypothetical Gunnar never won a World Series, he never played in a World Series despite his team winning one.  And his injury happened early enough in the season to where he didn't make too much of an impact over the course of the season.

Are you in favor of retiring his number in this hypothetical?  Or are you still going to hold the line?

 

 

 

[LookinUp]

Some day in the future, with a different family owning this team, they might have him back for an appreciation day. It'll be kind of like the OH appreciation thread, but done in May when there's 15,000 people at the ball park. Play some video from him as an Oriole, give him an enthusiastic golf clap and move on.

[Frobby]

28 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Mike Mu$$ina is the only drafted and developed All-Star by the Orioles to ever sign with the Yankee$ in his prime. He choose to go into the HoF (he doesn't belong there either because he belongs in the Hall of Very Good with Harold Baines but that's another story) with no cap Orioles cap on. That was the final nail in his retire his number as an Orioles thing. All of the others went in with Orioles caps on.

Yes, I know Peter Angelos was a terrible owner, and yes I know he was trying to get another hometown discount, but he ultimately did match the Yankee$ offer and Mu$$ina was like nope. 

Mu$$ina never won a Cy Young, never won 20-games, and never won a World Series with the Orioles. All of the players that are retired all won a World Series with the Orioles and all either won a Cy Young (4 for Palmer) or were MVPs. 

So it's big fat no for me. But you guys probably knew that.

 

 

There are some factual errors here.  Angelos never matched the Yankees’ offer or even close.  And Mussina did win 20 games, in his final season.  He belongs in Cooperstown, and to mention him in the same breath as Baines is silly.

None of that means his number should be retired in Baltimore. 
 

[Sports Guy]

3 minutes ago, Frobby said:

There are some factual errors here.  Angelos never matched the Yankees’ offer or even close.  And Mussina did win 20 games, in his final season.  He belongs in Cooperstown, and to mention him in the same breath as Baines is silly.

None of that means his number should be retired in Baltimore. 
 

Yea, it’s a joke to say he’s not a HOFer. It was a first ballot guy for sure.

[Sports Guy]

His peak Os seasons were right there with Palmer’s peak Os seasons and he didn’t have the benefit of the greatest defenses of all time playing behind him.

[tntoriole]

“Retiring one’s number” .. such a quaint relic from the days when players stayed as slaves to wherever they were assigned and we thought that meant they were “loyal.” 
 

What is his number? Is someone wearing it?  
 

I think the entire bizarre ritual of “retiring one’s number” should be retired. 

He worked for the Orioles. He did his job and was overpaid.  That is all.  Valhallas and Halls are mythological things. 

[DrungoHazewood]

1 hour ago, SilentJames said:

Buster Olney has been grinding this ace for the last 12 hours. The Orioles have not retired Mussina’s number and this is a grave offense to Olney. 
 

so how do we feel? 
options:

1) The Orioles should do it and the fact they haven’t is an insult (the Olney position) 

2) The Orioles should do it but they haven’t and it’s their call so meh.

3) The Orioles shouldn’t do it because he didn’t go into the Hall as “an Oriole,” and the team has to draw the line somewhere. 

4) I really don’t care 

5) The Orioles shouldn’t do it because Mussina is a traitor and I still haven’t gotten over it. 

I've long since made peace with the idea that only a crazy person would sign a below-market hometown discount long-term deal with the 2000 Orioles, given that Angelos basically said no pitcher was worth what the market was going to pay Mussina, and he clearly had no idea how to build a winning organization in the modern world. So most of the blame for Mussina leaving is squarely on ol' Pete.

But, no, you don't retire Mussina's number.

[Moose Milligan]

9 minutes ago, Frobby said:

There are some factual errors here.  Angelos never matched the Yankees’ offer or even close.  And Mussina did win 20 games, in his final season.  He belongs in Cooperstown, and to mention him in the same breath as Baines is silly.

None of that means his number should be retired in Baltimore. 
 

Tony put the caveat of not winning 20 games with the Orioles in that sentence. Subject/preposition agreement or something like that. 

[Aristotelian]

I don't follow Buster. Why all of a sudden is he grinding this axe? Is a $48M team in first place in the AL East not enough of a storyline? I do not think Mussina merits retired number, especially not for the Orioles.

[BRobinsonfan]

You broke my heart Mike Mussina!  

[Moose Milligan]

1 minute ago, tntoriole said:

“Retiring one’s number” .. such a quaint relic from the days when players stayed as slaves to wherever they were assigned and we thought that meant they were “loyal.” 
 

What is his number? Is someone wearing it?  
 

I think the entire bizarre ritual of “retiring one’s number” should be retired. 

He worked for the Orioles. He did his job and was overpaid.  That is all.  Valhallas and Halls are mythological things. 

What 

[Orange]

21 minutes ago, drdelaware said:

If any number gets officially retired it should be Elrod Hendricks #44 (yes I know he wore #10 as a player).  

Mussina can get in line behind Ellie, Flanny, Senior, and Adam Jones (all unofficially retired). If he rejoins the Orioles as a coach or scout and we win a World Series I may reconsider.