Cease vs everyone else

[Malike]

7 minutes ago, O's84 said:

Logic is not their strong suit.

Yeah, the stupid is strong with this one. They pushed the O's posters away saying they didn't want to deal with Baltimore and now they are panicking that if Snell signs with the Yankees they are not going to have leverage with Elias. They know damn well we have better prospects than the Yankees and they want them badly, no matter what they say over there. "Just turned 22", what a bum prospect in his old age.

I still love love how the Orioles fans insisted that their younger prospects like Basallo (19) and Coby Mayo (just turned 22) were untouchable but at the same time didn’t understand why a 25.5 year old Joey Ortiz may have lost some value and wouldn’t be the headliner in a Cease trade.  Take our old “prospects”, please!  

 

Edited January 10 by Malike

[Safelykept]

4 hours ago, DrinkinWithFermi said:

Cease is a flawed but still very desirable asset.

Not so desirable that I would make any of Holliday, Basallo, Kjerstad, Mayo, and Cowser available for his final 2 arb seasons, but desirable enough that I would be willing to go the volume route with guys who are very good prospects but not really critical to the next few years of Orioles baseball.

Ortiz, Beavers, and Baumann all match that criteria; Povich is debatable, but they want pitching and the deal is going to have to hurt at least a little for us, so I am willing to bite the bullet on including Povich since Baumann alone likely isn't enough on the pitching side. All told, I don't think it's a crazy overpay or anything.

Somebody else probably caves eventually and makes a dumb offer that beats the hypothetical Ortiz/Povich/Beavers/Baumann package rendering this all moot anyway.

Well, extra moot really. We are just some nobodies goofing around on a fan-run message board at the end of the day 

Why would they want Baumann?

[waroriole]

4 hours ago, Malike said:

Yeah, the stupid is strong with this one. They pushed the O's posters away saying they didn't want to deal with Baltimore and now they are panicking that if Snell signs with the Yankees they are not going to have leverage with Elias. They know damn well we have better prospects than the Yankees and they want them badly, no matter what they say over there. "Just turned 22", what a bum prospect in his old age.

I still love love how the Orioles fans insisted that their younger prospects like Basallo (19) and Coby Mayo (just turned 22) were untouchable but at the same time didn’t understand why a 25.5 year old Joey Ortiz may have lost some value and wouldn’t be the headliner in a Cease trade.  Take our old “prospects”, please!  

 

It’s very odd how anyone would think Mayo or Basallo were available for Cease. They should’ve traded him after 2022. They didn’t and so they don’t get the same price for him a mediocre year later. 

[Sports Guy]

Some of you are really underrating Cease. I’m not saying he’s going to be the 2022 version but he’s better than some are saying and obviously Elias values him, which should say something.

[waroriole]

3 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Some of you are really underrating Cease. I’m not saying he’s going to be the 2022 version but he’s better than some are saying and obviously Elias values him, which should say something.

It says a little, but Elias also traded for Flaherty. 

[Sports Guy]

8 minutes ago, waroriole said:

It says a little, but Elias also traded for Flaherty. 

And there was reason to believe that Flaherty  could help in a SSS. Just because moves don’t work doesn’t mean they weren’t worth doing.  Sometimes that’s the case and sometimes it’s not the case. There was enough in his profile to trade what very little they did for him and see if you could catch lightning in a bottle.

[Sports Guy]

6 hours ago, Malike said:

Yeah, the stupid is strong with this one. They pushed the O's posters away saying they didn't want to deal with Baltimore and now they are panicking that if Snell signs with the Yankees they are not going to have leverage with Elias. They know damn well we have better prospects than the Yankees and they want them badly, no matter what they say over there. "Just turned 22", what a bum prospect in his old age.

I still love love how the Orioles fans insisted that their younger prospects like Basallo (19) and Coby Mayo (just turned 22) were untouchable but at the same time didn’t understand why a 25.5 year old Joey Ortiz may have lost some value and wouldn’t be the headliner in a Cease trade.  Take our old “prospects”, please!  

 

I like how one of them points out that he saw a list of top 100 guys and Ortiz fell off of it yet he doesn’t say which list it was and where that list had him to begin with.

Meanwhile most lists currently have him in the top 100 and some of them very easily.

But they are eating it up without even asking which list is it or anything like that.

 

Edited January 10 by Sports Guy

[waroriole]

Just now, Sports Guy said:

And there was reason to believe that Flaherty  could help in a SSS. Just because moves don’t work doesn’t mean they weren’t worth doing.  Sometimes that’s the case and sometimes it’s not the case. There was enough in his profile to trade what very little they did for him and see if you could catch lightning in a bottle.

Showalter was too much. That was a bad trade. Unless Flaherty’s stuff looked dramatically different in St. Louis, that wasn’t a guy you could expect anything from down the stretch. He also seemed to fall apart when anything went wrong. That makeup would’ve been evident on a bad Cardinals team. 

[Sports Guy]

1 minute ago, waroriole said:

Showalter was too much. That was a bad trade. Unless Flaherty’s stuff looked dramatically different in St. Louis, that wasn’t a guy you could expect anything from down the stretch. He also seemed to fall apart when anything went wrong. That makeup would’ve been evident on a bad Cardinals team. 

I know your stance..it’s just wrong. A contending team should make that trade every day of the week.  I would have preferred to not trade Showalter too but they traded nothing to get someone with upside and potential to be more…it just didn’t work out.

Edited January 10 by Sports Guy

[Can_of_corn]

4 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

I know your stance..it’s just wrong. A contending team should make that trade every day of the week.  I would have preferred to not trade Showalter too but they traded nothing to get someone with upside and potential to be more…it just didn’t work out.

 No.  A contender should make a bolder move.

 

 

[sportsfan8703]

20 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Some of you are really underrating Cease. I’m not saying he’s going to be the 2022 version but he’s better than some are saying and obviously Elias values him, which should say something.

I just see it as you can’t have it both ways and you most certainly can’t have it all. Nobody wants to see Kremer start a playoff game again. Everyone loves Joey Ortiz. We need an ACE. JA won’t spend money. We like our guys. We like our prospects.

So since we love Ortiz so much, then that means we can handle trading Westburg. Plus we have Mayo and Holliday, who could be both be really hard to send down after ST. Horvath and Wagner are around AA as 3B.

Then for trading one of Cowser/Kjerstad, we’d still have one of Cowser/Kjerstad post trade. Beavers is here. Stowers is here. Mayo could see some RF. Horvath, Wagner, and Norby, could move to OF. Fabian could play some COF.

We also have three first rd picks and the #8 overall bonus pool in the upcoming draft. To back fill in what we give up.

Westburg and Cowser/Kjerstad gets it done. I don’t care if people here thinks that’s too much. That probably means it’s actually enough to get a deal done. If you love Joey Ortiz so much, well let’s play him here. 

[sportsfan8703]

2 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

 No.  A contender should make a bolder move.

 

 

Our bold moves should be Cease, and Holliday at 2B on OD. Go win us a draft pick kid. Let’s go. 

Edited January 10 by sportsfan8703

[waroriole]

7 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

I know your stance..it’s just wrong. A contending team should make that trade every day of the week.  I would have preferred to not trade Showalter too but they traded nothing to get someone with upside and potential to be more…it just didn’t work out.

What did you think they were gonna get out of Flaherty? He hadn’t even pitched 100 innings since 2019. What in his profile would make you think he could help?

[waroriole]

2 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

 No.  A contender should make a bolder move.

 

 

Either that or no move at all. Don’t throw away future trade assets just to say you did something. 

[Sports Guy]

1 minute ago, waroriole said:

What did you think they were gonna get out of Flaherty? He hadn’t even pitched 100 innings since 2019. What in his profile would make you think he could help?

For 10 starts, I thought there was a chance he could do enough to say, he’s one of our best starters for the playoffs…and I thought he had the stuff to be a potential difference maker in the playoffs.

He was still missing bats and getting Ks.  Some of his statcast numbers weren’t bad either. There was enough there to think he could provide value and guys who get Ks and miss bats are valuable in the playoffs.

I wasnt expecting him to be some sub 3 ERA guy but sub 4 over 10 or so starts?  Sure. An ability to start a playoff game and give us 5-6 good innings?  Yea, I thought all of that was possible and that possibility was worth trading the very little that we did to find out.