Fixing Wieters Swing

[Going Underground]

I heard he has bad ball recognition. I thought that was strange since he is a catcher. He does hit alot of slow rollers to second when he is batting left handed. Great athlete? He is not fleet of foot.

In order to be more consistent and fulfill expectations, the Orioles catcher cut out fast food last year and purchased an offseason home in Florida to train for the grind of the 162-game season.

http://www.postandcourier.com/news/2011/mar/31/former-stratford-teammates-still-face-great/

[NattieO'sHon]

Sorry but you are wrong...This is more of that cop out bs. I am showing facts and you are throwing out hope.

The bottom line is you feel he will just turn on a switch and just be great when he wants to be. That's wrong and its a poor assumption.

You tell me...what signs are out there, over the last year or so, that he will develop into the hitter we felt he would be?

BTW, he isn't a good athlete, at least not one that seperates him from a pro athlete. Adam Jones is a great athlete. Wieters isn't close to Jones in athletic ability.

You are showing facts but he has had only 800 ABs in the Majors and your are telling me that after 800 ABs you know if a player will be good or not? I think you are way to quick to judge.

Do you consider Varitek to have been a good catcher?

[Sports Guy]

You are showing facts but he has had only 800 ABs in the Majors and your are telling me that after 800 ABs you know if a player will be good or not? I think you are way to quick to judge.

Do you consider Varitek to have been a good catcher?

The great players are usually great from the beginning. That is what Wieters was supposed to be.

I am not to quick to judge. What I am pointing out are undisputable facts. I am more patient than most people on this site when it comes to young players. But the issues are obvious. These issues aren't just about results. These issues go further than pure results.

And yes, Varitek is a good catcher and right now, we will be lucky if Wieters is that.

2 years ago I would have been disappointed if a Varitek type player was all Wieters was going to be.

[glorydays]

I started a thread last year comparing the start of MW's to Joe Mauer's career and said it was too early to condemn MW to the status of a huge bust. Unfortunantly - it's a year later and I can no longer support my position.

Wieters - it's sad but it just happens too often in sports. Players fail to live up to their hype - even ones that end up with relatively good MLB careers.

Could he turn into a BJ Surhoff... another highly touted catcher who was a .700 OPS player until he turned 29 when he finally figured things out and turned into a very respectable player for the last 8 years of his career?

[Hallas]

When I saw him in Bowie and Frederick, I was really impressed by his ability to go the other way. The more I think about now though, I never really saw him turn on pitches and just assumed he was due to the numbers he was putting up. Now that he's in the major leagues and he seems to be still just dumping pitches into the opposite field instead of driving them has me wondering if I missed stuff that was their because the numbers told me a different story?

I do remember talking about Wieters moving his hands too much pre-pitch and basically was told that no one in the Orioles system really talked much with Wieters because it was one of those situation where if it a'int broke, don't fix it.

We all marveled how he was able to go the other way, but the more I think about it, no one talked about him really turning on pitches, even in the minors.

Do you think that swatting it the other way with power is not a translatable skill? The assumption probably is that if you can swat at a pitch weakly and clear the fence with it, then you can probably continue to do that at higher levels of play.

[section18]

Lighter bat and back in the box to the rear line like Cabrera of the Tigers. He needs more time to see the pitch apparently and maybe if he puts his rear foot on the back line of the batters box it will help him a little bit. It's worth a shot. Maybe Buck can switch his bat to a little bit lighter one. Even if its only a half an ounce lighter.

One of the Baseball Guide Books has the following info about bats;

Does the weight of a baseball bat affect the distance the baseball will travel?

Yes. The way you can see if the bat is heavy or not is to hold upwards with one hand. Doesn't seem that heavy does it, now hold it horizontally. Now it seems way more heavier. If you cant hold it very well then you should find a lighter bat. Keep doing this until you find a perfect bat.

Does the mass of a baseball bat relate to the distance the baseball travels?

Yes, as does, of course, the strength of the swing. Too heavy of a bat will result in a weaker swing. Every batter has their own specific bat mass that allows them to hit the ball further according to their swinging abilities. It can take quite a bit of time and investigation for a player to determine which bat is right for them.

Matt should be experimenting with different bats trying to find the one that lets him get around faster/quicker. It stands to reason if you can't pull a ball coming in at 89 mph you are not going to pull it coming in at 94 mph. He probably didn't see many pitches over 90 at GT and in the minors. He is seeing it regularly now so it's time to adjust.

[JTrea81]

Let's look at some numbers to test my earlier theory. Remember how Nick did much better in the #2 spot? Let's look at Wieters' stats:

<PRE>

Split G GS PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS TB GDP HBP SH SF IBB ROE BAbip tOPS+

Batting 3rd 20 20 88 80 8 21 3 0 3 11 0 1 8 24 .263 .330 .413 .742 33 5 0 0 0 0 0 .340 108

Batting 4th 3 3 13 12 0 1 0 0 0 2 0 0 1 1 .083 .154 .083 .237 1 1 0 0 0 1 1 .091 -31

Batting 5th 26 26 109 93 10 27 4 0 1 8 0 0 12 21 .290 .376 .366 .742 34 2 2 0 2 1 0 .356 110

Batting 6th 49 49 202 182 18 57 9 1 3 17 0 0 18 40 .313 .371 .423 .794 77 2 0 0 2 2 4 .383 123

Batting 7th 81 78 306 274 27 66 15 1 9 45 0 0 26 56 .241 .304 .401 .705 110 9 1 0 5 4 1 .266 97

Batting 8th 54 49 197 184 12 46 7 0 4 17 0 0 13 42 .250 .299 .353 .653 65 6 0 0 0 1 1 .304 83

Batting 9th 1 0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .000 .000 .000 .000 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .000 -100

</PRE>

Look at the difference with those numbers with the #8 slot he's hitting in now and the #5 and #6 slots.

I think part of the problem is that Wieters is hitting too low in the order, as he feels his job is to get on base to set the table for Roberts and Markakis which is why he takes so many hittable pitches. If he were hitting higher up, he'd likely have more of a chance to drive runs in and may be more aggressive in the count.

Matt went 4-8 with 2 RBI in that #5 spot before he ran into Justin Verlander, and then he was moved back to #8 after 1 game with an 0-4 performance.

[glorydays]

Let's look at some numbers to test my earlier theory. Remember how Nick did much better in the #2 spot? Let's look at Wieters' stats:

<PRE>

Split G GS PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS TB GDP HBP SH SF IBB ROE BAbip tOPS+

Batting 3rd 20 20 88 80 8 21 3 0 3 11 0 1 8 24 .263 .330 .413 .742 33 5 0 0 0 0 0 .340 108

Batting 4th 3 3 13 12 0 1 0 0 0 2 0 0 1 1 .083 .154 .083 .237 1 1 0 0 0 1 1 .091 -31

Batting 5th 26 26 109 93 10 27 4 0 1 8 0 0 12 21 .290 .376 .366 .742 34 2 2 0 2 1 0 .356 110

Batting 6th 49 49 202 182 18 57 9 1 3 17 0 0 18 40 .313 .371 .423 .794 77 2 0 0 2 2 4 .383 123

Batting 7th 81 78 306 274 27 66 15 1 9 45 0 0 26 56 .241 .304 .401 .705 110 9 1 0 5 4 1 .266 97

Batting 8th 54 49 197 184 12 46 7 0 4 17 0 0 13 42 .250 .299 .353 .653 65 6 0 0 0 1 1 .304 83

Batting 9th 1 0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .000 .000 .000 .000 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .000 -100

</PRE>

Look at the difference with those numbers with the #8 slot he's hitting in now and the #5 and #6 slots.

I think part of the problem is that Wieters is hitting too low in the order, as he feels his job is to get on base to set the table for Roberts and Markakis which is why he takes so many hittable pitches. If he were hitting higher up, he'd likely have more of a chance to drive runs in and may be more aggressive in the count.

Matt went 4-8 with 2 RBI in that #5 spot before he ran into Justin Verlander, and then he was moved back to #8 after 1 game with an 0-4 performance.

So... last year and this offseason the problem was that we didn't have enough bats to take the pressure off of Wieters. Now that we have the bats, we are putting too much pressure on him to get on base to set up... BRIAN ROBERTS? Unreal.

Perhaps it is just too cold for him in April and October and too hot for him in May-September.

[GoGoPower]

Look at the difference with those numbers with the #8 slot he's hitting in now and the #5 and #6 slots.

I think part of the problem is that Wieters is hitting too low in the order, as he feels his job is to get on base to set the table for Roberts and Markakis which is why he takes so many hittable pitches. If he were hitting higher up, he'd likely have more of a chance to drive runs in and may be more aggressive in the count.

Matt went 4-8 with 2 RBI in that #5 spot before he ran into Justin Verlander, and then he was moved back to #8 after 1 game with an 0-4 performance.

The problem with this theory is that those stats don't suggest that he's actually hitting any better in the 5th/6th spots than he is when he bats 8th. The key stats here are his Isolated-Power and BABIP:

Batting 5th - .076 ISO, .356 BABIP

Batting 6th - .110 ISO, .383 BABIP

Batting 8th - .103 ISO, .304 BABIP

So Wieters isn't really hitting with any more power higher up in the lineup - he's just getting luckier and hitting more singles. He actually hits the best batting 7th, where he has a respectable .160 ISO-P...

Sorry, but until he can get his ISO significantly higher than .110, he has no business hitting in the middle of the order.

[Moose Milligan]

You are way too critical of him. We all need to realize that right now Matt is more valuable behind the plate then in the lineup. Hence he is batting 8th. His hitting has been awful but he has plenty of time to develop. I am sure Buck told Matt that right now I want you to focus on being the best catcher in baseball. Don't worry about hitting that will come. You are more important helping the team by developing this staff. This staff needs you to be the leader. Well Matt listened and our staff has been amazing since last August. You cannot tell me that Matt is not a main reason why. He should have won the Gold Glove last year and most likely will this year.

I think this quote sums it up' date='"I don’t want to put the label on him at such a young age, but it’s Varitek-like," Connor said. "He studies. He really cares about calling a ballgame. A lot of catchers give you lip service that they do. But they don't. They're more interested in getting three hits."

I bet that once he feels like he is in a good place with the calling a game and working with this staff that he will attack the hitting aspect and will become a great hitter. He is just too good of an athlete.[/quote']

Put the Kool-Aid down.

[ChaosLex]

Do you know how people are always saying we could've had Lincecum over Rowell? How long until people are saying we could've had Heyward over Wieters?

[Satyr3206]

Wieters issues are relatively simple. Has has poor strike zone discipline. He needs to shrink his personal strike zone with less than two strikes to an area over the plate that he feels he can hit. Then with two strikes he has to learn how to go up the middle and, of course, protect the plate. Another issue is aggressiveness. He lacks it when at bat. He needs to get his bat through the zone faster with less than two strikes.

I don't buy the slow swing or long swing theory because he's a very tall player and they always look slower. Ted Williams made this point many times years ago and it holds true today. And you simply don't have College and Minor League numbers like he had with a slow plodding swing. Fix the strike zone issue and get him to be more aggressive with less than two strikes and you would see a different hitter.

[Satyr3206]

You say that you don't buy the slow bat theory because he hit so well in the minors but then you come up with the strike zone discipline theory despite the fact that he had great strike zone discipline numbers in the minors.

Minor League pitchers don't have the command or secondary pitches that most Major Leaguers pitches do.

[PrivateO]

Wieters breaks his streak with a nice double in the 5th against Burnett.

That's the strongest I've seen him swing the bat this season.

[Sports Guy]

Wieters breaks his streak with a nice double in the 5th against Burnett.

That's the strongest I've seen him swing the bat this season.

Yes, that was nice. That is the type of swing he needs consistently. Problem is, he will do that only once in a while.