Jump to content

Is Yankee/Red Sox Hegemony coming to an end?


Frobby
 Share

Recommended Posts

This makes three years out of four that either the Yankees or the Red Sox did not make the playoffs, and three years out of four that neither one was in the World Series.

Tampa seems well-positioned to stay in contention for the next several years. Moreover, it appears the Blue Jays are about to take a major step forward, with a young team and a ton of promising prospects.

Meanwhile, we've been waiting for the Yankees stars to get old, and it is finally starting to happen, maybe three years after we'd hoped. Pettitte's gone, Posada's probably out the door. Jeter and ARod are clearly on a pretty steep decline. Tex is good, but not as good as he was before the Yankees signed him, and just maybe he's going to be a guy who isn't that good in his 30's. Rivera continues to defy gravity, but that has to end someday -- doesn't it? I just sense that the pressure to win is getting to this team, and to Girardi.

The Sox, meanwhile, have missed the playoffs two years in a row. Their pitching is in disarray. They've fired their manager. Youkilis can't stay on the field.

Don't get me wrong -- the Yankees and Sox are going to continue to be good teams -- their wallets will see to that. And life isn't necessarily going to get easier for the Orioles considering how the Rays and Jays are positioned. But maybe we are about to enter an era where we don't go into the season with the presumption that the Yankees and Sox will be in the playoffs --where they are just two pretty good teams fighting for spots.

That would be progress.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It is anti-climatic when all the concern over the "buy a championship" approach has two of the highest spenders in baseball sitting on the sidelines watching the World Series along with teams that couldn't break 70 wins.

I think Dan Patrick had a poll recently regarding who's season would you rather have:

The Last Place Orioles with nothing to play for: Play a season ending series that ultimately eliminates a division rival in a final atbat

or

The Redsox: playing a high level of baseball aside from the start and finish but entering Sept 9 games up and sitting pretty. Only to be axed the last game of the season in a walk-off for the O's.

Edited by Fan4Life
Link to comment
Share on other sites

It is anti-climatic when all the concern over the "buy a championship" approach has two of the highest spenders in baseball sitting on the sidelines watching the World Series along with teams that couldn't break 70 wins.

I think Dan Patrick had a poll recently regarding who's season would you rather have:

The Last Place Orioles with nothing to play for: Play a season ending series that ultimately eliminates a division rival in a final atbat

or

The Redsox: playing a high level of baseball aside from the start and finish but entering Sept 9 games up and sitting pretty. Only to be axed the last game of the season in a walk-off for the O's.

It really is a tough question. Take the Ravens for instance. The past three years we've been a playoff team and strong SuperBowl contender, but all three years we watched the Big Game from home. As disappointing as that is, it sure as hell beats being a 6-10 team missing the playoffs every year. But in the question asked, that would be like being a 9-7 team and JUST missing the playoffs due to another 9-7 team getting in on a tiebreaker. I think that's almost worse than being the 6-10 team and knowing you're not getting in.

Still, give me an Orioles season where we have a chance the last week of the season and I'll take that over the alternative of 14 straight losing seasons and no hope.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It really is a tough question. Take the Ravens for instance. The past three years we've been a playoff team and strong SuperBowl contender, but all three years we watched the Big Game from home. As disappointing as that is, it sure as hell beats being a 6-10 team missing the playoffs every year. But in the question asked, that would be like being a 9-7 team and JUST missing the playoffs due to another 9-7 team getting in on a tiebreaker. I think that's almost worse than being the 6-10 team and knowing you're not getting in.

Still, give me an Orioles season where we have a chance the last week of the season and I'll take that over the alternative of 14 straight losing seasons and no hope.

It is tough for me as well... there was great excitement when we made the playoff's as the WildCard in 1996 and made it to the ALCS. And there was a tremendous LETDOWN for me when we went wire-to-wire in 1997 only to get bounced in the first round. I think it took 3 years for me to recover from that.

I've determined that for me, I like being the underdog and overachieving as opposed to the favorite and fending off the challengers.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This makes three years out of four that either the Yankees or the Red Sox did not make the playoffs, and three years out of four that neither one was in the World Series.

Tampa seems well-positioned to stay in contention for the next several years. Moreover, it appears the Blue Jays are about to take a major step forward, with a young team and a ton of promising prospects.

Meanwhile, we've been waiting for the Yankees stars to get old, and it is finally starting to happen, maybe three years after we'd hoped. Pettitte's gone, Posada's probably out the door. Jeter and ARod are clearly on a pretty steep decline. Tex is good, but not as good as he was before the Yankees signed him, and just maybe he's going to be a guy who isn't that good in his 30's. Rivera continues to defy gravity, but that has to end someday -- doesn't it? I just sense that the pressure to win is getting to this team, and to Girardi.

The Sox, meanwhile, have missed the playoffs two years in a row. Their pitching is in disarray. They've fired their manager. Youkilis can't stay on the field.

Don't get me wrong -- the Yankees and Sox are going to continue to be good teams -- their wallets will see to that. And life isn't necessarily going to get easier for the Orioles considering how the Rays and Jays are positioned. But maybe we are about to enter an era where we don't go into the season with the presumption that the Yankees and Sox will be in the playoffs --where they are just two pretty good teams fighting for spots.

That would be progress.

The Sox and Yankees will both be just fine ;)

The Sox are in good position. They have a bad contract in Lackey and perhaps a bad one in Crawford if he doesn't bounce back but have a lot of flexibility outside of these two. They have quite a bit of young talent MLB ready and more on the way. And then there are their deep pockets. I think it is highly likely they add at least one starting pitcher.

The Yankees aren't in such terrible shape either. Jeter is not worth the money but he still has value. Cano and Granderson are in their prime and now they will add Montero and several young starting pitchers are ready to emerge.

The Rays will be a challenge and I wouldn't be surprised to see them push one of the two out in any given year but i don't see the two beasts in any sort of steep decline.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This makes three years out of four that either the Yankees or the Red Sox did not make the playoffs, and three years out of four that neither one was in the World Series.
Which is why Bud Selig wants to add another wild card playoff team.

No, their dominance is not over. I've said many times over, they reload.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We may see incremental progress, but the Yanks and Sox will continue to do what they do: exploit their massive markets and excellent organizations to contend every year. The only big differences are that the Yanks are getting older, and the Jays and Rays are stepping up and becoming excellent organizations, too. In that way the O's are farther away than ever.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No.

As Sean said. The way these teams are run and financed they will always be at or near the top of this division. Unless these teams just get racked with injuries and bad luck throughout their systems they will be perennial contenders.

Where as other teams have windows of competition that last from, say, three-seven years I can foresee a situation where the reverse is true for the Yankees and Sox. They will have windows re-tooling that go from two-four years. The time it will take for retirees to leave and bad, giant contracts to expire. Then they buy the best players to fill their holes. (editor's note: I thought about re-wording that, but no I'm gonna leave it)

I think the Yankees might be entering that window right now. They have some rather massive contracts tied to players that are going become increasingly less productive.

The thing is though, they will still be above .500, well above .500 just not the 95+ win juggernauts they were.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It is tough for me as well... there was great excitement when we made the playoff's as the WildCard in 1996 and made it to the ALCS. And there was a tremendous LETDOWN for me when we went wire-to-wire in 1997 only to get bounced in the first round. I think it took 3 years for me to recover from that.

I've determined that for me, I like being the underdog and overachieving as opposed to the favorite and fending off the challengers.

I don't think this is a difficult question for me at all. I would rather be the one with the good season and let-down. Hell, I give up watching the O's generally around late August every year, because I just can't take it. The moment at the end was nice, but in reality I would way rather be in that game with something to lose rather than nothing to lose. Let-downs mean that at some point you were up. The O's are just a perpetual let-down for me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In their current form, probably. But these two teams are backed by owners with deep pockets, lucrative TV deals, rabid fanbases, demanding media and smart baseball men. They will reload or reinvent themselves to find a way to get back to the playoffs and the world series.

Both of their minor league systems are still better than ours and for all the talk about how they buy everyone, the Yankees traded for Granderson which anyone could have done including the Orioles. I can't imagine the Orioles offering Tillman and Pie plus a prospect or Tillman and Scott for Granderson at the time and the Tigers saying no. Granderson is the type of player that I would have went after. You need three outfielders and I would prefer having two that could play CF.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This makes three years out of four that either the Yankees or the Red Sox did not make the playoffs, and three years out of four that neither one was in the World Series.

Tampa seems well-positioned to stay in contention for the next several years. Moreover, it appears the Blue Jays are about to take a major step forward, with a young team and a ton of promising prospects.

Meanwhile, we've been waiting for the Yankees stars to get old, and it is finally starting to happen, maybe three years after we'd hoped. Pettitte's gone, Posada's probably out the door. Jeter and ARod are clearly on a pretty steep decline. Tex is good, but not as good as he was before the Yankees signed him, and just maybe he's going to be a guy who isn't that good in his 30's. Rivera continues to defy gravity, but that has to end someday -- doesn't it? I just sense that the pressure to win is getting to this team, and to Girardi.

The Sox, meanwhile, have missed the playoffs two years in a row. Their pitching is in disarray. They've fired their manager. Youkilis can't stay on the field.

Don't get me wrong -- the Yankees and Sox are going to continue to be good teams -- their wallets will see to that. And life isn't necessarily going to get easier for the Orioles considering how the Rays and Jays are positioned. But maybe we are about to enter an era where we don't go into the season with the presumption that the Yankees and Sox will be in the playoffs --where they are just two pretty good teams fighting for spots.

That would be progress.

Quite simply, no. As long as MLB allows for an uneven playing field we will have teams like the Yankees 16 of 17 years in the playoffs) and Red Sox (6 of last 9) in the hunt for the playoffs. Tampa has done a great job, but the Red Sox will just go out and sign Darvish, Fielder, and CJ Wilson and go right back after the Yankees. either way, the fact is that even if you take out the Red Sox, which you can't, the Yankees are in an unprecedented string of playoff appearances because their payroll disparity plays well over a 162 game schedule, meaning the rest of the AL East has one shot instead of two, and the Red Sox are going to spend like crazy after finishing two years in a row out of the playoffs (which took an epic collapse to do).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share




  • Posts

    • Man, this year's crop of FA 2Bs is seriously one of the most anemic FA classes for a particular position that I have ever seen. Assuming Philly declines his $17 million club option (which is very likely but not even a complete certainty), there is exactly one guy who has a sustained track record of legitimately above average production, Jean Segura, and he is ~33 and coming off a solid but somewhat down year by his prior standards. After that, there is one guy coming off a good year but with very little prior track record, Brandon Drury, and then it's pretty much all downhill from there. I suppose a team could sign a big money FA SS like Xander or Trea to play 2B if they are open to switching positions, but that would be a pretty inefficient use of resources for most teams. Or they could sign a SS and move their current SS over to 2B if they can afford to/are willing to pay market rates for a quality everyday SS. In light of all of that, I wonder if some of our potential IF excess, like Urias, Mateo, Westburg, and Ortiz, might fetch a fair amount more in trade from a MIF-needy team than they would in an offseason where there are at least a couple of fairly attractive everyday 2B options. Hopefully Elias can cash in on the situation, whether that be in the form of immediate help for the big league club or more prospects to keep the future talent pipeline pumping. Either way, we definitely seem to be in a strong position heading into the offseason.
    • Ben Clemens did an interesting study of how catchers’ speed drops off compared to other positions.   His conclusion: catchers’ speed doesn’t drop off any faster than anyone else’s, it’s just that they’re slower on average to begin with.  So, the wear and tear from catching doesn’t cause any extraordinary loss of speed.    The other interesting part was just the general path of speed loss for all players.   On average, it’s pretty much a constant, not something that accelerates at a certain age.  Generally speaking, it’s about 0.14 feet per second per year.  Obviously, an individual player can vary.     
    • There is no 'intent to cheat' if it's not against the rules.  Athletes forever have been taking supplements of one kind or another to try to get an edge.  As long as it's legal and not against the rules then no problem.  
    • I didn’t know about that, but I view it as different from knowingly using a banned substance.   Nor did it actually help him, apparently. But in any event, I’d rather keep the focus on our strategy against Judge this weekend.  That’s what this thread is about.  Not your fault for getting off-topic, that was already happening.  
    • Bourbon, cigars and poor decisions in the early morning hours.
  • Popular Contributors

  • Popular Now

×
×
  • Create New...