What evidence do we have that Angelos...

[24fps]

How much money have we wasted for replacement value or worse? I'd guarantee it's more than Tex's salary.

So your point is that replacing several underperforming contracts with one underperforming contract somehow creates value? Best case, you're still underwater merely less so. Drowning closer to the surface seems to me to be setting the bar a little low.

[waroriole]

So your point is that replacing several underperforming contracts with one underperforming contract somehow creates value? Best case, you're still underwater merely less so. Drowning closer to the surface seems to me to be setting the bar a little low.

And don't fans deserve better than that. Don't all the hardworking folks that just like to watch their team win deserve a little better than to have some overpaid and underperforming player at 1B?

I don't want to tell anyone how to be a fan, but it sounds like JTrea just doesn't respect the average fan.

[Dipper9]

I'm glad he did. Vlad was a risk that was worth taking that MacPhail wanted no part of. It didn't quite work out the way it was planned, but still the risk was worth it IMO.

If only he'd gotten involved with the Tex negotiations and when Matt Holliday was available...

I must say, I agree with this entire post. Vlad WAS a risk worth taking. Peter should have insisted that MacPhail spend more to get Tex. I suppose the fact that he didn't means he really couldn't see spending $20+ million a year on one player. You might want to consider that, Trea, before getting your hopes up this offseason.

[Dipper9]

Risk worth taking for what? A .500 record?

You're playing Monday Morning QB. The Orioles finished 2010 on a great run and expectations were high for 2011. Maybe not contention, but expectations were for at least a .500 record. The Vlad signing was definitely worth the risk, and the only person it really effected was Nolan, who got to the big club anyway!

[Dipper9]

Trea, even if the O's could somehow win with a bunch of old, expensive, unathletic guys, they couldn't maintain that success. Have you fallen so far that one year of winning baseball will satisfy you?

They need to have a core of young, cheap talent, signing someone like Vlad retards that approach on multiple levels.

The Orioles DO have a core of cheap young talent. The problem with 2011 was that core underperformed. You guys can blame Vlad and Angelos all you want, but the fat is our young pitching sucked and a lot of our young core did not perform. Vlad was not the issue this season.

[Can_of_corn]

The Orioles DO have a core of cheap young talent. The problem with 2011 was that core underperformed. You guys can blame Vlad and Angelos all you want, but the fat is our young pitching sucked and a lot of our young core did not perform. Vlad was not the issue this season.

I did not say that Vlad was the reason the team performed suboptimally this season. What I said was that spending 8 million on a player like Vlad runs counter to attempting to build a young, cheap team. Reimold missed at bats and funds were used for a one year rental that could have been better allocated toward player procurement and development.

The only way a move like signing Vlad makes sense is if you think he could be the difference in making the playoffs. Aside from Cindy no one thought that even an improved O's team was going to make the playoffs this season.

A move like signing Lee is at least defensible since the O's did not have anyone on the roster that could play first, and a player like Lee would be more enticing as a trade chip later in the season.

[Dipper9]

Why not? You want to put all the blame on AM? Why is it different?

They were both morons for even wanting to negotiate with Gregg, much less sign him.

I guarantee you Buck was all in for DLee and Vlad too.

To be fair, Buck seemed to really want VMart and that was his priority. It was MacPhail who let free agent first baseman after free agent after free agent fall by the wayside, until it was down to Lee and what's his name that the Nats got. That wasn't on Buck...that was on MacPhail. Bringing Miggy back in 2010...MacPhail. I liked the trades Andy made over the years, but his free agent pickups absolutely sucked!

[Sports Guy]

How much money have we wasted for replacement value or worse? I'd guarantee it's more than Tex's salary.

Yea, can you imagine all that money we would have wasted on guys like Figgins and Moyer? Or, Vlad? Oh wait, we spent that money.

You said it before...Everyone makes mistakes and signs poor contracts...for some reason, you hold that over the head of AM and pretend no one else does it.

BTW, you are right...they have spent too much money on middling FAs...but you advocate several of those guys every year.

[CA-ORIOLE]

You're playing Monday Morning QB. The Orioles finished 2010 on a great run and expectations were high for 2011. Maybe not contention, but expectations were for at least a .500 record. The Vlad signing was definitely worth the risk, and the only person it really effected was Nolan, who got to the big club anyway!

No not really. A .500 record in retrospect was something possible I guess.... if everything went well. A playoff berth was not. Don't care. I was against signing VLAD from the start as I'd rather have seen Reimold/Pie play regularly. Reimold's eventual time was more about Scott's injury (and Pie's failure) than anything else. AB's for young players are precious and VLAD sucked them up. I don't see any real reward there.

[Florida_Osfan]

The Orioles DO have a core of cheap young talent. The problem with 2011 was that core underperformed. You guys can blame Vlad and Angelos all you want, but the fat is our young pitching sucked and a lot of our young core did not perform. Vlad was not the issue this season.

Not to be contrary, but heck yeah Vlad was an issue this year. He was signed to be our cleanup/DH and he didn't deliver. Moreover, we gave that spot to someone who didn't really offer much value to us.

Sure, our pitching sucked and played the biggest role in our losing season, but Vladdy, his 8 million, and his declining numbers were an issue to me.

[Florida_Osfan]

How much money have we wasted for replacement value or worse? I'd guarantee it's more than Tex's salary.

Haha! Really? Tex's contract would have been a waste here, too. What part of that doesn't sink in? Have you looked at Tex's numbers the last couple years? How would those numbers have made us competitive? Winning 73 games instead of 69 wouldn't make people feel better, nor would it have been "better" than spending it on replacement players.

[Dipper9]

Haha! Really? Tex's contract would have been a waste here, too. What part of that doesn't sink in? Have you looked at Tex's numbers the last couple years? How would those numbers have made us competitive? Winning 73 games instead of 69 wouldn't make people feel better, nor would it have been "better" than spending it on replacement players.

Our first basemen the last three years were Huff, Atkins, and Lee. I think I would have taken my chances with Tex. But you're right, either way it was a waste of money. Until we fix the farm system, spending on the major league team is a waste of resources.

[JTrea81]

Until we fix the farm system, spending on the major league team is a waste of resources.

Winning as many games as you can and having a shot at going to the playoffs is not a waste of resources.

It's time to stop thinking the farm has to be fixed for the Orioles to compete. We aren't the Rays.

If the right talent is acquired through trades and FA, and the team goes all-in, there's no reason we couldn't have a good shot at the playoffs next season and in 2013 and 2014 as well.

After 2014, the farm system will then have to be ready to at least supplement the ML roster.

That three years should be plenty of time to make the changes neccessary and to acquire a good stockplile of talent.

But we don't have to lose at the ML level for that to happen, and if we win, that's more revenue that can be put toward fixing the minors as well as everywhere else.

And if the farm system isn't ready, at least you would have experienced competitive winning baseball for a period instead of just continued losing, and you'd have talent to trade to augment the talent on the farm instead of nobody of value and nobody on the farm.

[CA-ORIOLE]

.. there's no reason we couldn't have a good shot at the playoffs next season.............

That would entail a miraculous turn of events with respect to our existing talent and an unprecedented amount of spending.

[Frobby]

So far according to Fangraphs, Teixeira has been worth 55.3 million for his performance or $18.4 million per season. He's been paid $62.5 million or $20.8 million per season So he's underperformed by only $2.4 million per season. We've wasted more than $20 million in stopgap FA contracts year after year and you are talking about 2.4 million overpayment per season. Had the Orioles signed him for $23 million per season for 8/184, you'd be talking 4.6 million. And that would be the Orioles tax.

That's hardly an albatross for any team, especially the New York Yankees.

An albatross contract is Alex Rodriguez's second deal, or Adam Dunn's WS contract.

And you assume that if the Orioles signed Teixeria, that there would be no other effect and that the Orioles would have just stopped at Tex and not added more.

You can't just look at Tex in a vaccum. His impact would have been more than just his 4.2 fWAR, and we wouldn't have been having issues at 1B for the past 3 seasons. And we'd have Tex right now to build with going into this offseason instead having to sign a defensively inferior option in Fielder.

Tex's contract would have been worth it even if he wasn't living up to the overpayment IMO and to call it an albatross is just sour grapes that our GM didn't want to pay what it would take to get him.

It's not sour grapes, because I didn't think Tex was worth his contract when he signed it, and I said at the time that the Orioles should not have matched it. And while it is correct that he has "only" been overpaid by $2.4 mm per season over the first three years, it figures to get worse over time, as Tex ages and his performance slips. That is why I called it an "albatross." And I was referrring to it being an "albatross" for the Orioles, if we had signed him, not to the Yankees, who can afford to overpay by $30-$40 mm and not blink.