What evidence do we have that Angelos...

[Sports Guy]

Andy MacPhail was the one that decided to rely on the minor leagues, not Peter Angelos. It was his choice to rely on an organizational weakness.

But it was PA's fault that the depth and organizational structure hasn't been there to begin with.

There were multiple opportunities to augment LT in FA or with trades to fix certain positions and MacPhail chose to ignore them and instead put in stopgaps that could easily be pushed aside by even poor performing younger players.

I agree that AM has missed some oppurtunties. Not getting Rasmus for 50 cents on the dollar is an example of that....But PA is the one writing the checks and restricting the amount fo money being paid out. That has ALWAYS been the case.

MacPhail only cared about winning one way, and that's what held the organization back

I don't disagree that AM was poor...but his way was also PA's way(see Tony's latest article). Neither of them have a clue as to how to win in this division.

[ShaneDawg85]

Angelos got impatient and then did nothing to improve things.

He hired Buck last year and you said Buck was going to be in charge last year.

So, that means you should think that it was Buck who wanted Gregg, DLee, etc...

Which I have no doubt that he did. I have zero doubt that Buck wanted Kevin Gregg on this ball club, because he loves having multiple relief options, and he LOVES veterans.

[Hank Scorpio]

Which I have no doubt that he did. I have zero doubt that Buck wanted Kevin Gregg on this ball club, because he loves having multiple relief options, and he LOVES veterans.

cough cough VLAD cough

[ShaneDawg85]

cough cough VLAD cough

That too.

[JTrea81]

Which I have no doubt that he did. I have zero doubt that Buck wanted Kevin Gregg on this ball club, because he loves having multiple relief options, and he LOVES veterans.

Even though Gregg was an Orioles target the offseason before when Buck was not part of the Orioles? And he was also a former Cub no less...

MacPhail had made a similar signing the year before with Mike Gonzalez, when he made it an offseason priority to sign a "closer."

[Can_of_corn]

Even though Gregg was an Orioles target the offseason before when Buck was not part of the Orioles? And he was also a former Cub no less...

MacPhail had made a similar signing the year before with Mike Gonzalez, when he made it an offseason priority to sign a "closer."

Check your history Trea, Buck likes "closers" no matter what he says about the "win rule".

[JTrea81]

Angelos got impatient and then did nothing to improve things.

He hired Buck last year and you said Buck was going to be in charge last year.

So, that means you should think that it was Buck who wanted Gregg, DLee, etc...

Buck is in charge now. So I was off by a year, I'll admit that, but the switch did happen.

I forget who but somebody who has connections said that the MacPhail-Buck pairing started to sour after AM missed on VMart, somebody Buck really wanted.

Buck then realized he had to go to Angelos to make sure things changed.

[JTrea81]

Check your history Trea, Buck likes "closers" no matter what he says about the "win rule".

And so does Andy MacPhail. So you can't really put all the blame on Buck.

[Can_of_corn]

And so does Andy MacPhail. So you can't really put all the blame on Buck.

I wasn't putting all the blame on Buck. AM went out and got Gregg. I just think that the Gregg acquisition was pushed for by Buck.

[olehippi]

But it was PA's fault that the depth and organizational structure hasn't been there to begin with.

I agree that AM has missed some opportunties. Not getting Rasmus for 50 cents on the dollar is an example of that....But PA is the one writing the checks and restricting the amount fo money being paid out. That has ALWAYS been the case.

I don't disagree that AM was poor...but his way was also PA's way(see Tony's latest article). Neither of them have a clue as to how to win in this division.

So....how do we win this division given the current circumstances? What is the grand scheme that will turn this franchise around? Who can turn the tide? I'd like to know....and so would everyone else.

[El Gordo]

So....how do we win this division given the current circumstances? What is the grand scheme that will turn this franchise around? Who can turn the tide? I'd like to know....and so would everyone else.

Trade everyone(think of all the cool prospects we can get for that big bust C) field a AAAA team so we keep getting high draft picks, fire the Stockstills, buy the DR ma,ke it a suburb of B'more, and wait for the talent to start coming through the pipeline.

[Sports Guy]

So....how do we win this division given the current circumstances? What is the grand scheme that will turn this franchise around? Who can turn the tide? I'd like to know....and so would everyone else.

I love the idea of buying and selling. I have been preaching it for years.

Guys like Guthrie and Jones are not going to be worth extending for the deals they will want...So, you deal them and get back more talent and depth...Trading Jones now, at his highest value, is a good idea either way IMO.

But you don't have to go out there with a team of Robert Andinos.

You get back some guys in those trades that can be ML ready. You go out and look for another Hardy type guy, say Kendrys Morales for example and make a trade for Floyd or Nolasco and sign Darvish.

You get another bat like a Kubel and then you see what you have going forward.

By doing all of that, you don't have any terrible contracts..You have added a lot more depth and talent to the organization and you still put a team on the field that should be capable of a 500ish run and then be set up to then go out and spend big dollars in FA the following year.

Improve the defense and the pitching.

This way, you can have your cake and eat it too. You can still field a competitive team in 2012, while still building your system up.

[waroriole]

Angelos got impatient and then did nothing to improve things.

He hired Buck last year and you said Buck was going to be in charge last year.

So, that means you should think that it was Buck who wanted Gregg, DLee, etc...

Come on, we all called this last year. When things didn't work out it would be AM that wanted these players. Even though he already said that Buck was in charge.

I just don't get why people engage him in any conversation. LJ puts it best when he describes him as intellectually dishonest.

[ShaneDawg85]

Even though Gregg was an Orioles target the offseason before when Buck was not part of the Orioles? And he was also a former Cub no less...

MacPhail had made a similar signing the year before with Mike Gonzalez, when he made it an offseason priority to sign a "closer."

Kevin Gregg was a Cub for one season, in 2009, almost three years after MacPhail had left Chicago. MacPhail may very well have wanted Gregg, but if you don't believe that Buck a lot to do with that signing then you haven't watched most of Showalter's teams, or heard his own statements about how he views the bullpen.

[Sports Guy]

And so does Andy MacPhail. So you can't really put all the blame on Buck.

Why not? You want to put all the blame on AM? Why is it different?

They were both morons for even wanting to negotiate with Gregg, much less sign him.

I guarantee you Buck was all in for DLee and Vlad too.