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Gotta get help at the black hole at 2nd base

TouchemAll

By TouchemAll
in Orioles Talk

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bobmc Hangout Grand Counsel

bobmc

Posted
Posted
2014 fWAR for second basemen (sorted by defense, admittedly)

inbs6w.jpg

Schoop is 7th defensively among all qualifiers with far fewer games. "Per game" he's been one of the five best in baseball at the position.

Yes, he is a disaster offensively (dead last among all 2B), but Brian Roberts is near the bottom BOTH offensively and defensively. 7 runs below replacement at the plate, 4 runs below on defense.

He's not what we need at second base.

Once again for the record, "If only we had drafted Anthony Rendon vice Hobgood....." :deadhorse::deadhorse::deadhorse:

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Lester Freamon Major Leaguer

Lester Freamon

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I agree, and he's better than what we have.

I would like to upgrade Schoop if possible but I just don't think Roberts' offensive upgrade is enough to offset what we'd lose defensively. Just my opinion. Utley would be the answer to our dreams but I agree that we probably don't want any part of having him around beyond the 2015 season.

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Tony-OH Hangout Grand Counsel

Tony-OH

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We've needed a second baseman since 2012. Duquette's failure to address that is a blight on his otherwise stellar record.

Up until this offseason, his hands were tied a bit with Roberts' contract. I agree though, he needs to do something about second base. I really don't know what Ivan DeJesus has done but I can't imagine he could be worse than what we have right now.

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mdbdotcom Hangout Grand Counsel

mdbdotcom

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Brian Cashman has told us all we need to know about Brian Roberts. Cashman says they will use Prado in the outfield and Drew at 2B.

Stephen Drew's OPS is under .600 this year. And, he hates playing 2B. But basically, Cashman dropped Roberts in favor of Schoop's all-field no-hit clone.

Brian Roberts is simply terrible.

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Ruzious Hangout Grand Counsel

Ruzious

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Up until this offseason, his hands were tied a bit with Roberts' contract. I agree though, he needs to do something about second base. I really don't know what Ivan DeJesus has done but I can't imagine he could be worse than what we have right now.

Yeah, the O's were right in not keeping Brian, but I don't understand not giving Dejesus a chance when it appears he's clearly a better choice at this point and has been probably since day 1 in Spring Training. At least play DeJesus at 2B in Norfolk to prepare him. Not many things Buck is involved with frustrates me, but not giving DeJesus the opportunity really does. I'm a fan of Schoop's potential, but it's clear that he was rushed - and that he's been rushed.

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NCRaven Hangout Grand Counsel

NCRaven

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I agree that Davis and Cruz need to hit better than they have over the past month. But, the fact is, we are stuck with both of them whether they hit or not. Neither can be optioned and we're certainly not going to DFA either one of them. There is simply no replacing them. We rode Pearce's hot streak, but it's clearly over and he should come out of the lineup in favor of Delmon Young.

Schoop and Flaherty, on the other hand, have never had a hot streak and neither should get a start on this team. Secondbase is the area that should be addressed simply because it is the one area that can be addressed. Both have options. Schoop could clearly benefit from more time in the minors - he's still quite young. This is the one area that we could and should make an offensive up grade.

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Babypowder Hangout Veteran Council

Babypowder

Posted
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Roberts is not a significant offensive upgrade:

[TABLE=class: sortable stats_table row_summable]

<tbody>[TR=class: full hl, bgcolor: #DDEEFF]

[TD=align: left]2014[/TD]

[TD=align: right]36[/TD]

[TD=align: left]NYY[/TD]

[TD=align: left]AL[/TD]

[TD=align: right]91[/TD]

[TD=align: right]348[/TD]

[TD=align: right]317[/TD]

[TD=align: right]40[/TD]

[TD=align: right]75[/TD]

[TD=align: right]16[/TD]

[TD=align: right]4[/TD]

[TD=align: right]5[/TD]

[TD=align: right]21[/TD]

[TD=align: right]7[/TD]

[TD=align: right]4[/TD]

[TD=align: right]28[/TD]

[TD=align: right]53[/TD]

[TD=align: right].237[/TD]

[TD=align: right].300[/TD]

[TD=align: right].360[/TD]

[TD=align: right].659[/TD]

[TD=align: right]85[/TD]

[TD=align: right]114[/TD]

[TD=align: right]9[/TD]

[TD=align: right]1[/TD]

[TD=align: right]1[/TD]

[TD=align: right]1[/TD]

[TD=align: right]1[/TD]

[TD=align: left]*4

[/TD]

[/TR]

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[TD=align: left]2014[/TD]

[TD=align: right]22[/TD]

[TD=align: left]BAL[/TD]

[TD=align: left]AL[/TD]

[TD=align: right]87[/TD]

[TD=align: right]318[/TD]

[TD=align: right]301[/TD]

[TD=align: right]31[/TD]

[TD=align: right]65[/TD]

[TD=align: right]10[/TD]

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[TD=align: right]8[/TD]

[TD=align: right]73[/TD]

[TD=align: right].216[/TD]

[TD=align: right].253[/TD]

[TD=align: right].329[/TD]

[TD=align: right].582[/TD]

[TD=align: right]62[/TD]

[TD=align: right]99[/TD]

[TD=align: right]12[/TD]

[TD=align: right]7[/TD]

[TD=align: right]2[/TD]

[TD=align: right]0[/TD]

[TD=align: right]0[/TD]

[TD=align: left]*45[/TD]

[/TR]

</tbody>[/TABLE]

77 points of OPS is significant if you ask me, and an 85 to 62 advantage in OPS+ is significant if you ask me. That's the difference between JJ Hardy and Jonathan Schoop this year.

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tettleton14 AAA

tettleton14

Posted
Posted
I agree that Davis and Cruz need to hit better than they have over the past month. But, the fact is, we are stuck with both of them whether they hit or not. Neither can be optioned and we're certainly not going to DFA either one of them. There is simply no replacing them. We rode Pearce's hot streak, but it's clearly over and he should come out of the lineup in favor of Delmon Young.

Schoop and Flaherty, on the other hand, have never had a hot streak and neither should get a start on this team. Secondbase is the area that should be addressed simply because it is the one area that can be addressed. Both have options. Schoop could clearly benefit from more time in the minors - he's still quite young. This is the one area that we could and should make an offensive up grade.

Can be addressed now or later?

Who can we go out and get that improves us, right now? Again, Schoop's been playing gold glove caliber 2B — literally, he's been better than Brandon Phillips, who won a GG last year.

So IMO this upgrade shouldn't take too much off the table defensively and upgrade significantly offensively.

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Redskins Rick Hangout Grand Counsel

Redskins Rick

Posted
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I dont understand why DD hasn't brought up another option for 2nd.

But, at this point, until the rosters expand in August, I wouldn't be surprise to see things stay as they are.

With that said, Buck did hint, that waiver trades are still allowed, and who knows what DD can pull off.

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NCRaven Hangout Grand Counsel

NCRaven

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Can be addressed now or later?

Who can we go out and get that improves us, right now? Again, Schoop's been playing gold glove caliber 2B — literally, he's been better than Brandon Phillips, who won a GG last year.

So IMO this upgrade shouldn't take too much off the table defensively and upgrade significantly offensively.

Weeks, Lombardozi, DeJesus, and Parades could all provide solutions at 2B now if given a chance. I am not abandoning Schoop, by the way, I just feel he needs more time in the minors and is overmatched by ML pitchers at this point in time. Flaherty is a fine utility defensive player who can occassionally hit a long ball; but, he's not a starter.

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Redskins Rick Hangout Grand Counsel

Redskins Rick

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77 points of OPS is significant if you ask me, and an 85 to 62 advantage in OPS+ is significant if you ask me. That's the difference between JJ Hardy and Jonathan Schoop this year.

If you look at the splits of B-Rob, he has been in long and steady decline since a good April/May.

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Scrat1 Hangout Grand Counsel

Scrat1

Posted
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Schoop should have been in AAA two months ago. I've been strident about this since Spring Training. I agree with the majority of the decisions made by Buck and Duquette but this one they got dead wrong. Why they continue trotting the poor guy out there, I have no idea.

Give the lion's share of at-bats to Flaherty. He may not be much of an improvement, but he is one nonetheless.

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