Drum beat a little louder for Cubs deal

[wildcard]

you can have dempster..hes been HORRIBLE this spring..i really hope hes not starting for us.. but i think you have a better chance of getting marquis, especially after he publicly said that if he doesnt start , he wants out. :002_scool:

The Cubs will probably try to stretch Dempster out his next turn. If he does no do well, I think he becomes available. He has not started since 2003. It's a big move to go back to the rotation.

Zambrano, Lilley, Hill, Lieber and???? If Marshall is the 6th man, the Cubs may decide that Marquis is the best guy to be in the rotation. So Marquis gets what he asked for and the Cubs keep a guy that can eat innings. I have always thought that Marquis is a better starter than Dempster is likely to be.

[clapdiddy]

It will be a 5 for 2 deal, IF it finally happens.

Thanks Belkast...and I'm saying...it AIN'T happenin'!

[laxtonto]

Here is the true question that faces the Cubs at this point... What has the most direct value to their team and their hopes to win the WS this year.

Is it trade a 5th SP/Long man and pickup Payton?

Is it trade Murton and a SP prospect for Byrd

Is it trade 2 prospects for Crisp and his contract?

Each have their positives and negatives.

The 1st deal costs the least as far as prospects and overall vlaue to the team, but also provides the least upgrade.

The 2nd deal has little effect on the current roster, but has more risk involved. This deal is more centered around the Cubs fears that Pie isnt ready to hit MLB pitching.

The 3rd deal costs the most as far as added salary and giving up trading chips but brings in the most established of the 3 OF. The main problem with the Crisp deal is that his offensive game has been declining (or never really returned to his pre wristi njury form in Clev) and so he has some risk involved aswell.

[ChaosLex]

It will be a 5 for 2 deal, IF it finally happens.

Are our ideas remotely close to the real proposal, Belkast?

[Fan4Life]

I hope we can all agree that whether it be Ponson, DCAB, or any other good young arm that the O's have "developed" over the years - they all have been rushed to the MLB team. And in the end each never really fully developed into the talent that they had.

I'm excited that Norfolk will have a dynamic rotation and if it means that we have to suffer for a year with Trax and Marquis, than so be it. Can you imagine the competition for the 5 spots in our rotation next year?

As for Moore - I think they will find a way to keep him by sticking Patton on the 60 day DL.

1) If we have 2-3 pitchers tearing it up at Norfolk, leaving them there all year is a wasted opportunity

2) The 60 day DL doesn't help Moore and the 25 man roster

[blueberryale77]

well the cubs are also interested in coco crisp..who do you think is better?? crisp or payton?

There's no doubt that Crisp is the more desirable player. He's younger, faster, much better defensively, a better base stealer, at least as good with the bat (probably better from here on out as Payton is in decline, although right now his career OPS is about .020 lower), and while he has done some whining since losing his starting job in Boston he doesn't carry the extreme clubhouse cancer reputation that Payton does. However, the Cubs can get Payton for less than nothing. Taking his contract makes it easier for them to get something they covet a lot more (Brian Roberts) at the same time as it gives them a RH hitter with some experience playing CF, and they don't have to give up anything they want to get him. I wouldn't agree to take back Payton if I were the Cubs, but I can see why they would do it, particularly if it causes MacPhail to lower his demands for top prospects in exchange for Roberts at the same time as giving them a somewhat viable option to back up Pie. I wouldn't say that taking on Payton necessarily rules out acquiring Crisp or another bona fide CF now or further down the line. The Cubs could afford to eat all or part of Payton's $5 million contract for this year if need be.

[wildcard]

My question is:

How much worse off is this team in 2008 w/o Brian Roberts ? Forget 09',10'.. For someone who is going to be glued to the screen for this team THIS year, how bad are we talking guys? Will any of these guys make an impact THIS season? Or are we talking about a team that is bad, going to historically bad?

100 losses with Roberts. 105 without him. That is bad but the O's have been worse then that in the past.

There will be bright spots. Markakis, Jones, some of the pitchers will do better. Scott may be good. The O's will trade some guys mid year. Millar? Walker? Bradford? Maybe Dempster if they get him. I think Liz is going to come fast. His new delivery seems to have helped him.

Look for Penn to be back in April. One of the reasons that he went down early is that the guys that are optioned have to stay down for 15 days (not if it is because of injury). If the O's need another pitcher during the first 15 days then Penn is available.

[wildcard]

well the cubs are also interested in coco crisp..who do you think is better?? crisp or payton?

Crisp is much better, no question about it. Oakland is after Crisp also.

[wildcard]

It will be a 5 for 2 deal, IF it finally happens.

I will stick with 6 for 2 with the sixth being some Cubs farmhand that is not on the radar now.

[Roll Tide]

I still think the O's should get Murton in the deal. And it would be best to dump one of Gibbons, Millar, & Huff.

[wildcard]

Can't really remember who posted this but Marquis, Gallagher, Cedeno and patterson would have to be added to your 40 man roster as they are currently on the Cubs 40 man.

Yes, that is right. If they all would be in the deal, they all would have to be on the O's 40 man roster.

[wildcard]

simplified our life or complicated it more? We'll have 2 aging veterans starting for us which will push another youngster down... lets presume the aging Vets pitch badly, have little value at the deadline and can't be moved... AND we have 2-3 starters at Norfolk tearing it up... what'll we do? And that's not to mention we still will not have cleared a roster spot for Moore... is he going to have to go down and wait until we're able to move Gibbons, Huff or Millar?

Not if the O's take Dempster instead of Marquis and put Dempster in the pen.

[BaltimoreGhost]

100 losses with Roberts. 105 without him.

Not that it detracts much from your point, but I'd say more about 90 losses with, 105 losses without. Roberts sets the table better than anyone I've seen in an Oriole uniform in my brief lifetime. The fact that he starts many games on second base, whether it be by double or steal, means there are so many more oppurtunities to get ahead and stay ahead. I think missing him, means a MUCH worse lineup. Who else really gets on base and steals bases enough to lead off without him? He has to be worth at least 15 wins between his bat, base running, and his solid D.

That being said, if you can get the latest rumored deal that has surfaced with Ceda, do it now.

[Camden_yardbird]

simplified our life or complicated it more? We'll have 2 aging veterans starting for us which will push another youngster down... lets presume the aging Vets pitch badly, have little value at the deadline and can't be moved... AND we have 2-3 starters at Norfolk tearing it up... what'll we do? And that's not to mention we still will not have cleared a roster spot for Moore... is he going to have to go down and wait until we're able to move Gibbons, Huff or Millar?

I think this is an unfair assumption. Last year we had two vets Trachsel and Wright who people assumed would both be bad. Yet only one of the two was bad and the other had trade value. I think you have to apply the same assumption if anything.

Trachsel might get worse, but if Marquis were to pitch better he would look very good to an NL team. He hasn't been a horrible NL pitcher, but also not a very good one.

[glorydays]

1) If we have 2-3 pitchers tearing it up at Norfolk, leaving them there all year is a wasted opportunity

2) The 60 day DL doesn't help Moore and the 25 man roster

1 - We both know that at some point during the season that one of our pitchers will struggle or go on the DL. If a SP is tearing up Norfolk they will get the opportunity to pitch on the MLB team. Trax will be pitching for the minimum and can be easily dumped.

2 - You are correct but he does have an option. Bring him back in a couple of weeks when we have to make our first roster move. Playing regularly for a couple of weeks at Norfolk will be better than playing 1-2 games a week in Baltimore.