Gunnar Henderson 2021

[NCRaven]

35 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

And no way does he not have the player's best interest at heart...

Did I say that?  I think that they have a plan on how best to develop the player.  I think they want it to be good for both the player and the team.

[Jammer7]

1 hour ago, Frobby said:

I don’t know that low A pitchers really ever adjust to a hitter.   They’re too busy just getting their own stuff to work and get over the plate.    

I think if the O’s weren’t stacked with MI prospects, Henderson would be in High A now.   But I’m not fussed about it yet.   It doesn’t matter much if he’s moved now vs. late June/early July.   But I’d definitely want him to get enough High A under his belt where he can start 2022 in AA if he does well after his promotion.  
 

 

The pitchers do adjust, situationally if nothing else. If they find out you chase a high fastball, for instance, you will see them go there if they can when they need a swing and miss. It may depend on the organization somewhat.  We adjusted in travel ball and high school to a hitters weaknesses. 

I agree with most of what you wrote. Ultimately, I want him to start in AA in 2022. He is a very exciting talent.

[Ruzious]

Probably the best thing about not promoting Henderson at this point is that both he and Westburg both now get to play every day at SS - to see if they can handle the position.  

[sportsfan8703]

How do we know Gunnar isn’t the next phenom?  This dude needs to be in A+ ASAP with the goal for him to get his feet wet for 10-20 games in AA to close the season. 
 

I can’t remember a prospect of ours at any age, or at any level, doing what he’s doing. The dude is a machine. 

[Can_of_corn]

6 hours ago, NCRaven said:

Did I say that?  I think that they have a plan on how best to develop the player.  I think they want it to be good for both the player and the team.

I think they just want what is most valuable for the team.

[sportsfan8703]

Just scrolling through the hitters in the top 100, and I don’t see an instance where a prospect dominated A ball like this and wasn’t quickly promoted. 
 

Most of the sites do the re-rankings after the draft. I expect Gunnar to be a consensus top 50 prospect and maybe higher. 
 

If you look at the top 10 SS lists, Gunnar has more HR already this year than most of them have hit an a single season, or some even haven’t hit that many in their career. 

[NCRaven]

4 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

I think they just want what is most valuable for the team.

I agree.  And developing Henderson into a quality MLB player is in both their best interests.

[glenn__davis]

12 hours ago, Jammer7 said:

They can move him up in early or mid-July. There is plenty of time. He can start AA in 2022 and move up from there. That would get him to Baltimore at age 22 in 2023. Again, what is your rush?

The rush is to get players at the MLB level that can help you win baseball games. That's the whole point of it, right?  

Obviously we don't want to "rush" him to the point of hindering his development, but I'm one that tends to believe that the cream will ultimately rise to the top.  Certainly as far as hitters go at least.

[Can_of_corn]

12 minutes ago, NCRaven said:

I agree.  And developing Henderson into a quality MLB player is in both their best interests.

Not exactly. The goals don't quite line up.

[Cavspider]

That feels strange to read and yet so very satisfying!

[Three Run Homer]

I pity the poor pitchers in the Sally League.  Henderson is pissed that he hasn't been promoted yet, and he's taking his frustrations out on the baseball.

  

[Jammer7]

2 hours ago, glenn__davis said:

The rush is to get players at the MLB level that can help you win baseball games. That's the whole point of it, right?  

Obviously we don't want to "rush" him to the point of hindering his development, but I'm one that tends to believe that the cream will ultimately rise to the top.  Certainly as far as hitters go at least.

I get that, certainly. But just to get them there is not even of half of the job of developing a player. You want them to get there and have the tools to have success and stay. You want them to have had enough failure, and to have overcome that failure so they can deal with it in the major leagues.

Look at the terrible development of players not named Machado over the previous 10 years. Elias has said repeatedly that he does not want to send guys down, if possible. He wants them to come up, and stay up. That is the goal, anyway. Particularly for guys who have the ability to be all stars. 

No one is saying to hold him back. Just that he should move up when he passed certain benchmarks. Shown particular abilities, skills and aptitude. Winning a few more games next year is not more important than winning a lot more games in the years that follow. Not to me anyway. 

[glenn__davis]

I think we're largely on the same page.  I would disagree about the "terrible development of players not named Machado" line.  I think the team has largely been adequate at developing position players.  They have been horrendous at developing pitchers, like almost impossibly bad.

I do think myself and others (certainly Can of Corn leading the charge) feel that the team has been too conservative with the placement of their prospects, and that this is unnecessarily delaying the next competitive window.  I say that with the full understanding that we don't have all of the pieces to the puzzle.  But they essentially acted as if last year didn't happen at all and that no development took place, which is a mistake IMO.  We heard that Gunnar was extremely impressive at the camp site last year.  Mostly against older more experienced players.  Could have been just hype but certainly doesn't look that way right now.

In his case - I'm not interested in "rushing" him.  I am interested in him becoming an asset to the big league club as quickly as possible.  I think we understate the fact that players develop at the big league level also.  So, is a timeline arrival of 2023 a good timeline for him?  I guess...but if he gets decent time at AA this year, why not push to start him at AAA next year and starting getting his feet wet in the majors next year?  Again, with assumption (not at all a foregone conclusion) that he'll continue to have success.

I mostly like Elias, but I do think he's intentionally slow-playing some of these guys.

[Sports Guy]

46 minutes ago, Jammer7 said:

I get that, certainly. But just to get them there is not even of half of the job of developing a player. You want them to get there and have the tools to have success and stay. You want them to have had enough failure, and to have overcome that failure so they can deal with it in the major leagues.

Look at the terrible development of players not named Machado over the previous 10 years. Elias has said repeatedly that he does not want to send guys down, if possible. He wants them to come up, and stay up. That is the goal, anyway. Particularly for guys who have the ability to be all stars. 

No one is saying to hold him back. Just that he should move up when he passed certain benchmarks. Shown particular abilities, skills and aptitude. Winning a few more games next year is not more important than winning a lot more games in the years that follow. Not to me anyway. 

You hit all the cliches here and I don’t think anyone disagrees.  The difference is what those benchmarks are and how long it takes to pass them.

Personally, like Grayson, I don’t think he should have started at the level he did, so when I see him Dominating, that just re-affirms my belief that he should be moved up.

[NCRaven]

Rodriquez made 5 starts in A+.  Not 10 or 20, but 5.  I don't think that they are slow rolling him.  It will be interesting to see how many starts he gets in AA.  Or how many more DL Hall gets at that level.  Hall is at 5 now.  If Hall is as good as he has been for his next 2-3 starts, I think he'll be Norfolk bound.  And, damn I'm old, started to type Rochester.