Interesting tidbits from Rosenthal's Elias/Zaidi article

[interloper]

 

https://theathletic.com/2760090/2021/08/09/rosenthal-farhan-zaidis-ability-to-find-unlikely-talent-has-given-the-giants-an-impressive-edge/

So this article is kind of controversial on Orioles twitter because of the obvious silliness in comparing Elias to Giants GM Farhan Zaidi considering that their respective organizations were in wildly different places. Anyway, they were hired at the same time so that makes them the same! 

To Ken's credit he does go out of his way to mention the different places each organization is in, but anyway there are some interesting pieces that I'll highlight below.

Quote

In some ways a comparison between the two executives and their respective franchises is unfair. The Giants’ $149.5 million Opening Day payroll was the 11th-highest in baseball. The Orioles’ $57 million sum was the fourth lowest. The difference in resources, however, is not as much of an advantage for Zaidi as it might appear.

Nearly $111 million of the Giants’ initial payroll — almost 75 percent — was tied up in six players, five of whom Zaidi inherited. Zaidi’s edge, over not only Elias but also almost every other executive in baseball, is his ability to find talent on the margins, hit on players who were available to virtually every other club.

Quote

Luck plays a part in certain moves; Yastrzemski was a surprise even to the Giants. Zaidi also would be the first to acknowledge that scouting, coaching and player development all contribute to the team’s success.

..

Quote

The Orioles’ trade of Yastrzemski, in the view of one club official, was partly the result of faulty communication between the front office and player-development department in the months after took Elias took over. At the time, Zaidi was near the end of his first spring training with the Giants, collecting outfielders at a dizzying pace.

Quote

So in almost every respect, the cupboard for Elias was pretty much bare; the Orioles’ farm system ranked 22nd entering 2019, according to Baseball America. Ownership, through its payroll decisions, indicated it was not going to pay for a team that was going to lose. Elias rebuilt the system through high draft picks and a few shrewd trades, and the team’s No. 7 ranking entering the season was its highest ever in Baseball America’s 37 years of organizational talent rankings. Of course, that’s the least a team in the Orioles’ position should accomplish, and the draft is not certain to produce the desired results. In each of the last two years, Elias went under slot to select top 10-to-15 talent with top-five picks, the idea being to select better, costlier players later. Outfielder Heston Kjerstad, the No. 2 overall choice in 2020, has yet to play due to myocarditis.

That's kind of a clumsy bit of writing at the end there about Heston, kind of accidentally (or not) tying his myocarditis to the fact that he was an underslot pick, something out of everyone's control.

Anyway, Ken goes on to highlight some of the pickups that have worked out for Zaidi and overall it's kind of a weak article. But it does offer some light-to-moderate criticism of Elias, which I'm sure will provide the board with some fodder, as it appears he's getting less and less popular around here. See, don't ever say I - Elias apologist - didn't do anything for ya.

[interloper]

I thought the bit about the miscommunication during the transition re: Yaz was interesting. Hadn't heard that before.

[Frobby]

2 minutes ago, interloper said:

I thought the bit about the miscommunication during the transition re: Yaz was interesting. Hadn't heard that before.

Does the article elaborate on what the “miscommunication” was?   Or is this just a general claim by Rosenthal without specifics backing it up?

[interloper]

Just now, Frobby said:

Does the article elaborate on what the “miscommunication” was?   Or is this just a general claim by Rosenthal without specifics backing it up?

Nope that's literally the only mention of it.

[interloper]

But, it's somewhat believable because Elias was hired late and going about the process of installing his own player development crew, so I could definitely see how roster decisions had to be made quickly and maybe some voices were left out in that early process. Not saying it's an excuse, but it's also not like the Giants were specifically targeting Yaz. They were themselves in the process of making a ton of waiver claims and seeing what stuck. 

[Frobby]

9 minutes ago, interloper said:

Nope that's literally the only mention of it.

Well, that’s a shame because I’d love to know if there were people on the player development side who thought Yaz had a chance of being a significant major league contributor.   

[Sports Guy]

It was really a horrendous article.

Rosenthal said several times, in so many words, that comparing the situations wasn’t fair yet he did it anyway.

Where he could and should have taken the article is that they both took over poor teams with middling to poor farm systems and Zaidi has been superior in finding cheaper ML talent and has just done better at building the ML team.

[Pickles]

I think it's worth pointing out, that those five inherited big-money contracts, are the biggest reason they're in first place.  Those are all, with the exception of Gausman, who we gave away as a salary dump, there best players.

[7Mo]

Is this not all directed at ownership? The way I read it, Elias has done what he's been hired to do, at least to date and the criticism is directed at ownership. 

....He wasn't hired to find Muncy or Taylor (i.e., ignore the big club for now), the club had been stripped almost bare (there weren't tradable assets), it's unclear when ownership will spend money, why not get going, maybe those modest sums are too much.... 

Elias was not hired to find the next Max Muncy or Chris Taylor, two of Zaidi’s discoveries when he was general manager of the Dodgers. The Orioles needed to bolster their analytics department and build their international scouting almost from scratch. And unlike the Giants, who still had big names on their roster at the start of 2019, including several who had contributed to their three World Series titles, the Orioles’ major-league club had been stripped almost bare. 

 

The team, however, is unlikely to compete, at earliest, until 2023. And if that is to happen, Elias will need to enjoy better success with the free agents he signs to inexpensive or minor-league deals, particularly when it’s unclear at which point ownership again will be willing to spend big dollars in the open market. Next season will be the last season in which the Orioles pay Chris Davis his $23 million salary. The team does not have a single guaranteed dollar committed for ‘23, though a number of its players will be eligible for arbitration.

Why not get moving? While a trade of shortstop Freddy Galvis to the Phillies at the deadline brought the Orioles a low-level pitching prospect, most of Elias’ lesser moves — right-hander Matt Harvey, third baseman Maikel Franco, et al — fall into the category of “meh.” It’s true the Orioles in their current state are not exactly a desired destination for free agents. But what if they had offered right-hander Anthony DeSclafani $2 million more than the $6 million he received in his one-year deal from the Giants? They might have ended up with a pitcher who could have helped them better compete this season and attracted serious trade interest in a market that was starved for quality starting pitchers. A two-year deal for Taijuan Walker in excess of the $20 million the Mets gave him would have made sense for the same reasons.

Perhaps even those relatively modest sums were too rich for Orioles ownership. But no rebuilding team should ever look at a player and say, “He is not a fit.” As the Giants, in particular, have shown, if the player is evaluated properly, he will prove an asset.

[fitzi22]

In many ways Elias is building this franchise as if it was an expansion team.  I honestly believe the Angelos brothers asked Elias what he thought he could do for the organization and he said he could build a world class analytics department and bring in the best international scout out there.  The Angelos boys said that’s great all we ask is that you cut payroll.  All of those have happened so I don’t know where the O’s go from here philosophically long term.  At some point one would think we have to do something different but what and when.  Elias and the Angelos boys haven’t done anything different for 3 years now and I think that is the source of a lot of frustration with this team.

[Gurgi]

Ken has not forgiven Baltimore for his having to take a job here once upon a time.  

[Yossarian]

Alex Rodriguez was talking during the Sunday Night Baseball game (Cubs- White Sox) about the Cubs big sell-off.  The Cubs fans were not happy about it, especially with the legacy players like Baez, Bryant, and Rizzo.  Cubs management does not consider it a re-build.  Rodriguez went on to say that given the financial resources of the Cubs, the "major market" position, and the fan base, the re-build will be quick.  He could see them back in playoff contention by 2023, or so.  It's crazy to think that they could recover from losing the talent that they have to turn right back around to contention within a couple of years (especially considering Baltimore is years away from that level and has 5 years head start on the re-build compared to the Cubs).  I guess a desirable team and location and an ownership group that is willing to spend money can land key free agents and speed the process along.  Time will tell how well the Cubs did with their trades of the big names.

[LA2]

16 minutes ago, Yossarian said:

Alex Rodriguez was talking during the Sunday Night Baseball game (Cubs- White Sox) about the Cubs big sell-off.  The Cubs fans were not happy about it, especially with the legacy players like Baez, Bryant, and Rizzo.  Cubs management does not consider it a re-build.  Rodriguez went on to say that given the financial resources of the Cubs, the "major market" position, and the fan base, the re-build will be quick.  He could see them back in playoff contention by 2023, or so.  It's crazy to think that they could recover from losing the talent that they have to turn right back around to contention within a couple of years (especially considering Baltimore is years away from that level and has 5 years head start on the re-build compared to the Cubs).  I guess a desirable team and location and an ownership group that is willing to spend money can land key free agents and speed the process along.  Time will tell how well the Cubs did with their trades of the big names.

Surprised you care what A-Rod says on this issue.

[Yossarian]

1 minute ago, LA2 said:

Surprised you care what A-Rod says on this issue.

I concede that he knows more about playing baseball and the business of baseball than I do.  I don't mind listening to folks that know more than I do.

[eddie83]

The article was Kenny being Kenny. I think showing how well SF was doing and how they did it is a great story. Using the Orioles as a comparison made no sense.