A few things

[66-70-83-??]

That's where you're wrong. It is not true that there has been any competent 10-year effort to attend to either aspect. Much less both of them. Deciding what to do now, based on thinking that the last decade has somehow featured a competent effort to balance both concerns is crazy. That's a case of basing a very important decision on a completely false premise.

Fortunately, I think there's no chance that AM is thinking that way.

Wrong. Fortunately, AM does think that way. He knows the best way to fix this mess of a team is to rebuild it from the bottom up.

“Trying to sign a free agent here and there and Band-Aid this thing is not a strategy that has really worked out.”

MacPhail said the Orioles want to rebuild their talent base in all areas, suggesting they would want multiple players in any deal.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/08/sports/baseball/08yanks.html

Who mentioned "competent" ? That is beside the point anyway. You can only straddle that line (rebuild/reload simultaneously) if you a good foundation.

One look at the standings of the last 10 years (and our 40 man roster) proves it wasn't competent. Considering the mess of an organization that McPhail is taking over and the 10 years of losing that those methods produced- it is crazy to suggest operating the same way.

It is a widely held view in baseball that the Oriole FO has been a dysfunctional mess for ten years without clear direction on whether they want to rebuild or contend.

There have been countless articles written locally and nationally as well as many threads here at OH about it.

The Orioles have tried to do too much in recent years, seeking to both rebuild and reload at the same time.

O's beat writer Spencer Fordin at MLB.com http://baltimore.orioles.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20071008&content_id=2257076&vkey=news_bal&fext=.jsp&c_id=bal

"They've constantly straddled this line of, 'Let's see how many games we can win this year, and we'll deal with next year next year.' That doesn't work. You have to have a longer-term vision and approach, or you're going to be constantly chasing your tail."

-- An AL general manager

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=crasnick_jerry&id=2587235 article titled "O's in Full Blown Identity Crisis

And nothing will change — nothing — unless Angelos changes the way he operates the club.

The hiring of former Cubs executive Andy MacPhail as chief operating officer is a step in the right direction, but only if Angelos recognizes the need for a greater overhaul.

A massive overhaul. A complete deconstruction.

They need to start over. Otherwise, their latest managerial firing and front-office shakeup will prove to be just another waste.

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/6935162 , ken rosenthal

[RShack]

Wrong. Fortunately, AM does think that way. He knows the best way to fix this mess of a team is to rebuild it from the bottom up.

“Trying to sign a free agent here and there and Band-Aid this thing is not a strategy that has really worked out.”

MacPhail said the Orioles want to rebuild their talent base in all areas, suggesting they would want multiple players in any deal.

You're proving my point. You're twisting his words into meaning something that he never said.

• Dramatically changing how the organization does business? Check.
• Dramatically changing how effective the org is at finding and developing talent? Check?
• Killing the organizational tendency to rely on FA's as band-aids? Check.
• Acquiring good talent in all areas? Check.

But nothing about that says he's gonna clean house of everybody's who's over 25 and decent, nor does it mean he's gonna turn his back on available talent just because a guy is 29 years old.

The current roster is the *least important* thing to fix. It's a symptom, not the cause. If he fixes the underlying causes, then the organization will be fine in 4 or 5 years no-matter which of many possible future-oriented things he might do with the current roster. While he will no doubt look to get some young talent to jump-start the org's player production, he's not gonna go nuts and deliver multiple crappy years at OPACY. Just because he's prepared to see 2008 suck, that doesn't mean he wants 2009 to suck too. To take the things AM has said, and then twist that into saying that he thinks the O's have no use for somebody who's 29 is just goofy. It's seeing everything in terms of one extreme or the other, like it's either all-black or all-white. It's not. AM didn't get to where he is by thinking like that. He's gonna be trying to put a decent team together by 2009, and he's gonna try to do at least half of that this winter. There's plenty of room for some 29-year olds. He's not gonna mortgage the future to get them, but he's not gonna ignore near-term quality either. He never said the things you think he means.

A certain subset of the blow-it-up folks (not everybody) insists that either you're with them or else you're against the O's future. AM is neither. He doesn't care what anybody here thinks. He cares about the opinions of the people he works with, and the guys he has to do deals with. That's not us. Here's what he knows about fan opinion: Fans aren't gonna be happy until the team plays decent and wins ballgames. He cares about writers inasmuch as he has to deal with them professionally, but he's not diagnosing things based on what Rosenthal says. I betcha he's not gonna do either extreme. You just watch and see.

[El Gordo]

You're proving my point. You're twisting his words into meaning something that he never said.

• Dramatically change how the organization does business? Check.
• Dramatically change how effective the org is at finding and developing talent? Check?
• Killing the organizational tendency to rely on FA's as band-aids? Check.
• Acquiring good talent in all areas? Check.

But nothing about that says he's gonna clean house of everybody's who's over 25 and decent, nor does it mean he's gonna turn his back on available talent just because a guy is 29 years old.

The current roster is the *least important* thing to fix. It's a symptom, not the cause. If he fixes the underlying causes, then the organization will be fine on 4 or 5 years no-matter what he does with the current roster. While he will no doubt look to get some young talent to jump-start the org's player production, he's not gonna go nuts and deliver multiple crappy years at OPACY. Just because he's prepared to see 2008 suck, that doesn't mean he wants 2009 to suck too. To take the things AM has said, and then twist that into saying that he thinks the O's have no use for somebody who's 29 is just goofy. It's seeing everything in terms of one extreme or the other, like it's either all-black or all-white. It's not. AM didn't get to where he is by thinking like that. He's gonna be trying to put a decent team together by 2009, and he's gonna try to do at least half of that this winter. There's plenty of room for some 29-year olds. He's not gonna mortgage the future to get them, but he's not gonna ignore near-term quality either. He never said the things you think he means.

A certain subset of the blow-it-up folks (not everybody) insists that either you're with them or else you're against the O's future. AM is neither. He doesn't care what anybody here thinks. He's cares about the opinions of the people he works with, and the guys he has to do deals with. That's not us. Here's what he knows about fan opinion: Fans aren't gonna be happy until they play decent. He only cares about writers inasmuch as he has to deal with them professionally. But he's not diagnosing things based on what Rosenthal says. I betcha he's not gonna do either extreme. You just watch and see.

What he said.

[66-70-83-??]

You're proving my point. You're twisting his words into meaning something that he never said.

• Dramatically changing how the organization does business? Check.
• Dramatically changing how effective the org is at finding and developing talent? Check?
• Killing the organizational tendency to rely on FA's as band-aids? Check.
• Acquiring good talent in all areas? Check.

But nothing about that says he's gonna clean house of everybody's who's over 25 and decent, nor does it mean he's gonna turn his back on available talent just because a guy is 29 years old.

The current roster is the *least important* thing to fix. It's a symptom, not the cause. If he fixes the underlying causes, then the organization will be fine in 4 or 5 years no-matter which of many possible future-oriented things he might do with the current roster. While he will no doubt look to get some young talent to jump-start the org's player production, he's not gonna go nuts and deliver multiple crappy years at OPACY. Just because he's prepared to see 2008 suck, that doesn't mean he wants 2009 to suck too. To take the things AM has said, and then twist that into saying that he thinks the O's have no use for somebody who's 29 is just goofy. It's seeing everything in terms of one extreme or the other, like it's either all-black or all-white. It's not. AM didn't get to where he is by thinking like that. He's gonna be trying to put a decent team together by 2009, and he's gonna try to do at least half of that this winter. There's plenty of room for some 29-year olds. He's not gonna mortgage the future to get them, but he's not gonna ignore near-term quality either. He never said the things you think he means.

A certain subset of the blow-it-up folks (not everybody) insists that either you're with them or else you're against the O's future. AM is neither. He doesn't care what anybody here thinks. He's cares about the opinions of the people he works with, and the guys he has to do deals with. That's not us. Here's what he knows about fan opinion: Fans aren't gonna be happy until they play decent. He only cares about writers inasmuch as he has to deal with them professionally. But he's not diagnosing things based on what Rosenthal says. I betcha he's not gonna do either extreme. You just watch and see.

You like to put words in peoples mouths. No where did I suggest that writers influence AM or that he is going to clean house of everyone over 25, etc....

I have complete confidence in AM rebuilding the Orioles with committment to rebuilding the whole organization and abandoning the failed methods of the last 10 years.

Time will tell. But, I betcha he isn't going to trade our future for 29-34 yr old expensive veterans.

[RShack]

You like to put words in peoples mouths. No where did I suggest that writers influence AM or that he is going to clean house of everyone over 25, etc....

OK, then, pick your number. What is this mythical line in the sand you think he's gonna draw? 26? 27? You act like AM has decided that somebody who's 29 is too old. All I'm saying is that you're making that up.

I have complete confidence in AM rebuilding the Orioles with committment to rebuilding the whole organization and abandoning the failed methods of the last 10 years.

Well, see, we agree about something. We both think he's gonna do that. We just disagree about exactly what we think AM thinks that means, roster-wise ;-)

Time will tell. But, I betcha he isn't going to trade our future for 29-34 yr old expensive veterans.

Who said anything about 34 year olds? A page ago, you were saying 29-32 year olds. Now it's 29-34? Nobody is suggesting either 32 or 34 as the kinda people he would see as part of the future. Why you lump that in with guys in their late-20's is beyond me. Changing the old-end of the age bracket you're making up doesn't make somebody who's in their late-20's any older.

Whatever. We'll see soon enough...

[nyjimbo]

RS sees the big picture. I think just about everyone on this board agrees that things will have to change, it's just a matter of how these changes are made. I have faith that AM can get things FINALLY in the right direction.

[Wingman]

You're proving my point. You're twisting his words into meaning something that he never said.

• Dramatically changing how the organization does business? Check.
• Dramatically changing how effective the org is at finding and developing talent? Check?
• Killing the organizational tendency to rely on FA's as band-aids? Check.
• Acquiring good talent in all areas? Check.

But nothing about that says he's gonna clean house of everybody's who's over 25 and decent, nor does it mean he's gonna turn his back on available talent just because a guy is 29 years old.

The current roster is the *least important* thing to fix. It's a symptom, not the cause. If he fixes the underlying causes, then the organization will be fine in 4 or 5 years no-matter which of many possible future-oriented things he might do with the current roster. While he will no doubt look to get some young talent to jump-start the org's player production, he's not gonna go nuts and deliver multiple crappy years at OPACY. Just because he's prepared to see 2008 suck, that doesn't mean he wants 2009 to suck too. To take the things AM has said, and then twist that into saying that he thinks the O's have no use for somebody who's 29 is just goofy. It's seeing everything in terms of one extreme or the other, like it's either all-black or all-white. It's not. AM didn't get to where he is by thinking like that. He's gonna be trying to put a decent team together by 2009, and he's gonna try to do at least half of that this winter. There's plenty of room for some 29-year olds. He's not gonna mortgage the future to get them, but he's not gonna ignore near-term quality either. He never said the things you think he means.

A certain subset of the blow-it-up folks (not everybody) insists that either you're with them or else you're against the O's future. AM is neither. He doesn't care what anybody here thinks. He cares about the opinions of the people he works with, and the guys he has to do deals with. That's not us. Here's what he knows about fan opinion: Fans aren't gonna be happy until the team plays decent and wins ballgames. He cares about writers inasmuch as he has to deal with them professionally, but he's not diagnosing things based on what Rosenthal says. I betcha he's not gonna do either extreme. You just watch and see.

How do you know in such detail what AM is for? No one knows... You don't know how long he's willing to "suck" either... Also, NO ONE on here claims that AM should read this board as some sort of resource. However, that doesn't negate us from having our opinions and evaluating his decisions on what we think is best for the organization. No one has said that there aren't room for 29 year olds on this team, but to think that we will get Bay from the Pirates for a song is a fantasy. Getting Bay would likely cost us several of our better younger prospects and that's what people are against. Trading our best prospects for players on the downside of their careers.

It may not be "necessary" to trade every older player on our roster but it's definately has it's advantages... Instead of using up resources to keep our record "respectable" in the next couple of years why not convert those resources so we can have an even better team in 2010 that can not only contend but challenge for the WS?

[Sports Guy]

RS sees the big picture. I think just about everyone on this board agrees that things will have to change, it's just a matter of how these changes are made. I have faith that AM can get things FINALLY in the right direction.

Thank you for the laugh...I needed that today.

[TinCup]

Bump....

Come on BigBird..

Its been a full 24 hours and 17 pages of posts..

Where in the world is your next "A few (more) things" thread?

We "a few things" junkies need to be fed!!!

[Peace21]

How about Alot of Things?

[JTrea81]

Bump....

Come on BigBird..

Its been a full 24 hours and 17 pages of posts..

Where in the world is your next "A few (more) things" thread?

We "a few things" junkies need to be fed!!!

According to BB's last line I wouldn't expect anything major until the Winter Meetings. Right now there's a lot of talk but no action. Most likely the O's are about to get into "Holiday" mode which means no trades until after Turkey Day. It is frustrating to see GMs like Hendry on other teams making moves while all we get from MacPhail is silence. But to be fair it takes two to tango and now instead of "Confederate money" we now have "Confederate players" who are all Plan C's of other teams...

[raypetty]

How about Alot of Things?

Peace, I was going to ask you and BB if anything was immenent in the next few days or if either of you had heard anything. Guess not:(

[El Gordo]

According to BB's last line I wouldn't expect anything major until the Winter Meetings. Right now there's a lot of talk but no action. Most likely the O's are about to get into "Holiday" mode which means no trades until after Turkey Day. It is frustrating to see GMs like Hendry on other teams making moves while all we get from MacPhail is silence. But to be fair it takes two to tango and now instead of "Confederate money" we now have "Confederate players" who are all Plan C's of other teams...

Calm down. The two biggest trades are Tejada and Bedard. Tejada can't happen until Lowell, ARod and MCab sort themselves out. Bedard can't happen until an extension is offered and turned down. Now that Posada is signed Ramon might be the first to go, but FA can't even be talked to about money until tomorrow.

[Delduck]

What he said.

X2 It is beyond me how people think 29 is old. The Good Lord knows I wish I felt like I did at 29 once again, heck even 35.

[Boy Howdy]

Calm down.

Indeed. At last count, we are still 138 days from opening day.