A few things

[Leitch]

If that's the case, and Bay is in the lineup protecting Tejada and Markakis, we could definitely see a boost in Tejada's stats, thus making him a more attractive trade candidate come the July deadline.

I doubt there would be any change in his actual production, however if it helps shape it differently(more SLG versus AVG/OBP), I guess there's a possibility shinier triple crown status could up his percieved value.

[CrimsonTribe]

Jason Bay will not come cheap, while the Pirates front office is not run by OHers or winning any awards they aren't total idiots who are going to just dump the guy.

I doubt their poor evaluating skills somehow forgets the guy was the NL Rookie of the Year 3 years ago and two time All-Star 05'-06'.

Never said that the Pirates would wrongly value Bay, only that if they did I'd be in for buying low and selling high. As I've said elsewhere in this thread, that is the only scenario where I'd be for acquiring him.

[mikezpen]

If they throw a lot of their limited resources into getting just one guy, that leaves the w/less to spend on filling their many other holes.

[nyjimbo]

Never said Bay is Robinson. Just comparing wisdom of acquiring a player of alleged declining skills at an age where he should be coming into his prime vs. "blowing it up" and bringing in all prospects. While I feel the team has alot of dead wood that AM would be a genius to be able to unload, I think adding a talent like Bay would also be a step in the right direction. I remember many posters last offseason were screaming for the O's to sign Huff. Payton was looked upon as an excellent pickup. While Bay isn't Robinson he sure as hell isn't Huff or Payton.

[O no]

Never said that the Pirates would wrongly value Bay, only that if they did I'd be in for buying low and selling high. As I've said elsewhere in this thread, that is the only scenario where I'd be for acquiring him.

Understood, I am just not a fan of going after Bay like players when IMO we need to rebuild.

I guess Pirates fans look at Bay much the way we look at Tejada.

They both have some great awards, numbers in their history, coming off a bad year and could possible help accelerate their rebuild, or at least get them closer to a winning product. My guess is both fan bases overvalue each player.

IMO we should limit risk as much as possible when making trades, hoping to get a player like Bay, Sexson or Burnett with the intent we get some additional value when we ship them off is an unnecessary risk that might work for a contender but not prudent for a cellar dweller.

I think he will play great for the Tribe when they trade for him.

[RShack]

Never said Bay is Robinson. Just comparing wisdom of acquiring a player of alleged declining skills at an age where he should be coming into his prime vs. "blowing it up" and bringing in all prospects. While I feel the team has alot of dead wood that AM would be a genius to be able to unload, I think adding a talent like Bay would also be a step in the right direction. I remember many posters last offseason were screaming for the O's to sign Huff. Payton was looked upon as an excellent pickup. While Bay isn't Robinson he sure as hell isn't Huff or Payton.

I could see AM doing it, depending on what it costs. I think some folks saw where AM said we're not just a player or two away, and somehow think he's bought into the whole blow-it-up extremism. I don't see any reason to think he's bought into that at all. Good franchises are constantly rebuilding. It's not some special thing, and it's not black-and-white.

Some folks here seem to think it is all black-and-white: either go completely nuts and trade everybody who's decent for prospects, or else it's just more of the same. I don't buy that at all. It doesn't mean you have to suck for 3 years first while you focus on nothing but prospects and 1st-year guys. I don't think there's a chance in hell that AM does that.

[Big Mac]

Going after Bay is a bad idea, IMO. It just seems to me that we should be giving up our veterans for prospects, not the other way around.

[Leitch]

I could see AM doing it, depending on what it costs. I think some folks saw where AM said we're not just a player or two away, and somehow think he's bought into the whole blow-it-up extremism. I don't see any reason to think he's bought into that at all. Good franchises are constantly rebuilding. It's not some special thing, and it's not black-and-white.

Some folks here seem to think it is all black-and-white: either go completely nuts and trade everybody who's decent for prospects, or else it's just more of the same. I don't buy that at all. It doesn't mean you have to suck for 3 years first while you focus on nothing but prospects and 1st-year guys. I don't think there's a chance in hell that AM does that.

The thing is that Bay's skills are or soon will be in decline, and that he's likely going to cost more in prospects than we're(or should be) willing to spend.

We hope he'll crank 35 dongs in Oriole Park and turn back into that .325 EqA guy that he was two years ago, but then again we expected the same thing of Huff.

And frankly, I don't think a team full of the guys we're looking to get would suck for long.

[El Gordo]

The thing is that Bay's skills are or soon will be in decline, and that he's likely going to cost more in prospects than we're(or should be) willing to spend.

We hope he'll crank 35 dongs in Oriole Park and turn back into that .325 EqA guy that he was two years ago, but then again we expected the same thing of Huff.

And frankly, I don't think a team full of the guys we're looking to get would suck for long.

Comparing Bay to Huff is silly.

[Leitch]

Comparing Bay to Huff is silly.

It's a superficial comparison(guy we spend too much on after an off year with expectations of bounceback to previous levels).

I was suprised to find that Huff's 2007(.262) was actually a little better(offensively) than Bay's(.259).

[66-70-83-??]

I could see AM doing it, depending on what it costs. I think some folks saw where AM said we're not just a player or two away, and somehow think he's bought into the whole blow-it-up extremism. I don't see any reason to think he's bought into that at all. Good franchises are constantly rebuilding. It's not some special thing, and it's not black-and-white.

Some folks here seem to think it is all black-and-white: either go completely nuts and trade everybody who's decent for prospects, or else it's just more of the same. I don't buy that at all. It doesn't mean you have to suck for 3 years first while you focus on nothing but prospects and 1st-year guys. I don't think there's a chance in hell that AM does that.

We used to be a model franchise. We had the luxury of giving up a Davey Johnson here and a Don Buford there and working in a Bobby Grich or a Don Baylor.

But times have really changed. We aren't a good franchise anymore. Good franchises have farm systems that produce at a steady rate that gives them the luxury of dealing excess prospects to plug holes.

Our farm isn't producing. It needs to be replenished by dealing away the older players who are/will be. We have made some nice draft picks in recent years but our system needs more..

We need all the prospects we can get now. After we form a good young and solid foundation and have a surplus of prospects, that is when we start dealing (or signing FA) for 29-32 yr old players.

Dealing away the prospects needed to acquire a Jason Bay would set this franchise back. Regardless of whoever started it- Reimold and Cabrera for Bay is fantasy. It would be more like Loewen, Reimold, and a third.

We have tried to contend/rebuild simultaneously for 10 years. We have a mess.

Completely rebuilding is the way for this team at this time. New mgr, new coaching staff, new young talent

[RShack]

We have tried to contend/rebuild simultaneously for 10 years.

That's where you're wrong. For the last 10 years, neither aspect has been done successfully. Deciding what to do now, based on thinking that the last decade somehow shows the failure of a competent effort to balance both, is a case of basing a very important decision on a false premise.

Fortunately, I don't think AM will make this mistake.

[RShack]

We have tried to contend/rebuild simultaneously for 10 years.

That's where you're wrong. It is not true that there has been any competent 10-year effort to attend to either aspect. Much less both of them. Deciding what to do now, based on thinking that the last decade has somehow featured a competent effort to balance both concerns is crazy. That's a case of basing a very important decision on a completely false premise.

Fortunately, I think there's no chance that AM will make this mistake.

[RShack]

We have tried to contend/rebuild simultaneously for 10 years.

That's where you're wrong. It is not true that there has been any competent 10-year effort to attend to either aspect. Much less both of them. Deciding what to do now, based on thinking that the last decade has somehow featured a competent effort to balance both concerns is crazy. That's a case of basing a very important decision on a completely false premise.

Fortunately, I think there's no chance that AM is thinking that way.

[rolliefingers]

Did anyone mention the coincidence that Jason Bay is from Canada and that maybe AM is trying to build a Canadian family to show Bedard some love?

Several people mentioned that many pages ago.