Sabermetrics, My Take

[Moose Milligan]

As an engineer I... am... having... to... put a bunch of filters on my keyboard to keep from going over some line... I know you don't mean anything offensive here. Really. Not everyone is a math and science person. I get that. But much of the modern world wouldn't exist without advanced math and science. And I can't get enough of that stuff. My light reading in the evening is often articles from Slashdot, and the IEEE Spectrum magazine, and sometimes some pretty technical stuff about cars or airplanes or machines... that's the coolest stuff in the world. And it carries over to understanding baseball.

Nope, certainly don't mean anything offensive. And you're right, it is the coolest stuff in the world. I wish I understood that stuff better. I wish I had a better mental capacity for it but I just don't.

[Frobby]

My problem here is that different people mean different things when they refer to "sabermetrics." Are batting averages sabermetrics? I'd say yes, even though they were around for 100 years before the term "sabermetrics" was coined. It seems to me sabermetrics has three dimensions:

1. Measuring aspects of performance.

2. Weighing different aspects of performance.

3. Projecting future performance.

And, they have different uses and value depending on whether they are being applied to amateur players, minor leaguers or major leaguers.

[Redskins Rick]

I have no problem with the saber stats guys, I know, the game with all the math involved leads one to analysis it.

I leave that stuff to the experts that understand it.

The one thing that I don't get, is the way, some, not all, but a small minority want to try and explain every single activity in the game, no matter how insignificant, to a stat.

Just a bad over the top example, the pitcher had a jock scratch itch in between pitches 59.9% of the time. But, his splits was 87.9% when behind in the count, 67.3% when RISP and 33.6% when his team was winning.

[Il BuonO]

I find the "eye test" "I played the game" crowd to be as smug and rather more condescending then the "saber" crowd.

You won't find any "saber" guys saying that analytics is all you need but you will find plenty of examples of the "old school" crowd claiming that is what the "stat guys" say.

You are also a lot less likely to find the "saber" guy discounting overwhelming evidence.

Ok, I'm gonna let this slide knowing you weren't talking directly to me. (You weren't, were you?) I always felt my having played the game at a relatively high level gave me some measure of experience from which to speak on the game that others didn't just didn't have. How people choose to impart that information determines how it's perceived.

I've said before I have learned quite a bit right here since I stopped playing and appreciate all the knowledge that's out there. The statistics only increase my enjoyment of the game.

Having played the game provides a unique perspective but it is in no way the only way to express knowledge about the game. Heck, I knew plenty of my teammates who weren't too bright when it came to baseball strategy or even had a cursory knowledge of the game.

[Can_of_corn]

Ok, I'm gonna let this slide knowing you weren't talking directly to me. (You weren't, were you?) I always felt my having played the game at a relatively high level gave me some measure of experience from which to speak on the game that others didn't just didn't have. How people choose to impart that information determines how it's perceived.

I've said before I have learned quite a bit right here since I stopped playing and appreciate all the knowledge that's out there. The statistics only increase my enjoyment of the game.

Having played the game provides a unique perspective but it is in no way the only way to express knowledge about the game. Heck, I knew plenty of my teammates who weren't too bright when it came to baseball strategy or even had a cursory knowledge of the game.

I was talking of the folks that use their experience playing the game (even if it's fictional) to discount opposing arguments or in an attempt to belittle other posters.

[Redskins Rick]

I was talking of the folks that use their experience playing the game (even if it's fictional) to discount opposing arguments or in an attempt to belittle other posters.

That can be rather annoying from some posters.

[Il BuonO]

I was talking of the folks that use their experience playing the game (even if it's fictional) to discount opposing arguments or in an attempt to belittle other posters.

I'll belittle you every chance I get pal. And I did play, I did!

[Can_of_corn]

I'll belittle you every chance I get pal. And I did play, I did!

I see you are closing in on the second bird.

Good job! /pats head

[Il BuonO]

I see you are closing in on the second bird.

Good job! /pats head

Aw, you noticed....

[Redskins Rick]

Aw, you noticed....

Congrats!

One of these days, I might finally get one.

[Il BuonO]

Congrats!

One of these days, I might finally get one.

Thanks, but I'm not there yet. Who knows? I may never post here again. :vader:

[mdbdotcom]

Thanks, but I'm not there yet. Who knows? I may never post here again. :vader:

Give that man a bird!

[ledzepp8]

It can swing too far if you think all human behavior can be measured in formulas. Objective truth is in the eyes of the beholder.

I'm not sure what it is you're arguing. These "formulas" are measuring the value a player is adding or had added, they're measuring how well they did or are doing in a certain area (defense, offense, whatever). Their human behavior has no bearing on that.

[ledzepp8]

I respect that but I don't agree that it never happens. If we went by the sabermetrics for Paredes, we would have cut him.

What did the sabermetrics say about Paredes?

[Herman]

My problem with saber-metrics and the people who use stats as the primary basis of their argument is that not all stats are quantifiable. Stats should be used as a barometer instead of as a definitive answer. It is obnoxious when "stat guys" are smug and talk down to the other person.