Orioles and the 2019 ASG (Mancini out, Means in)

[makoman]

14 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

As I said earlier, he's probably a player selection.  Can't do anything about that.

He was. This breaks down how each player was selected. Blame the players for Mancini’s exclusion.

https://www.mlb.com/news/2019-all-star-game-rosters

ETA: Looks like MLB has 6 picks. The O’s, Jays, Mariners, Tigers, Royals all needed a player. And Minor leads the league in WAR. 

Edited July 1, 2019 by makoman

[Tryptamine]

18 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

As I said earlier, he's probably a player selection.  Can't do anything about that.

He was a player selection.

[Legend_Of_Joey]

46 minutes ago, BohKnowsBmore said:

22 guys, Means, and Mancini would make 24. Which of our guys is the sneaky 25th unaccounted for?

The guy ordering his Uber to Norfolk.

[Just Regular]

We had an organized Mancini for All-Star campaign - a few more good games and I can't wait for the Means for Cy Young one.

If I cherry pick the Fangraphs AL starters leaderboards to match his minimum 70 innings pitched, he comes up 23rd among AL starters in rWAR.  1st place is Lance Lynn and his 4.00 ERA.

If I change the sort to....ERA, Means pops to 3rd place.  He, Mike Minor and Charlie Morton are a quarter run clear of everyone else for now.  I guess with the Rangers accidental contention Minor isn't a trade probability anymore, but let's pretend.  Charlie Morton's due to hurt himself, Frankie Montas is suspended.

Verlander, Giolito and Berrios would need a few second half blowups, but I can imagine certain sectors of the electorate LOVING it if Means goes like 15-6 and decisively winning the ERA title for a 110-loss team.  It'll evoke 1972 Steve Carlton memories, adjusted to 2019's distributed workloads.

Like with Nick Markakis's 3000 hits chase, this is one to enjoy to the fullest now, now, always now.

I kid about Cy Young, but on the rookie boards, Fangraphs only has Spencer Turnbull, Dan Vogelbach and Brandon Lowe ahead of him - with Vlad not lighting the world on fire yet, he's really in that mix.  John Means beating Vlad for ROY could be an amazing trivia question a quarter century from now. 

[Aristotelian]

52 minutes ago, BohKnowsBmore said:

Except Abreu made it with an .800. And he’s the third white sock. 

Yeah, that's a pretty terrible pick. Just saying there are other guys as good as Mancini that also didn't make it.

[atomic]

5 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

Yeah, that's a pretty terrible pick. Just saying there are other guys as good as Mancini that also didn't make it.

Abreu has a career of good performance, Mancini as negative WAR last year.  Also Abreu is first baseman and Mancini has mostly been an outfielder.

[BohKnowsBmore]

2 minutes ago, atomic said:

Abreu has a career of good performance, Mancini as negative WAR last year.  Also Abreu is first baseman and Mancini has mostly been an outfielder.

And Miguel Cabrera and Albert Pujols have far superior career performances, but they shouldn’t be the 2019 all star selection at 1B. Thus far this is Abreus 2nd worst career season by OPS and worst by OPS+. 

Hes played 1B enough. This is reserves, not starters. Positional criteria is not nearly as important of a consideration. 

[makoman]

15 minutes ago, BohKnowsBmore said:

And Miguel Cabrera and Albert Pujols have far superior career performances, but they shouldn’t be the 2019 all star selection at 1B. Thus far this is Abreus 2nd worst career season by OPS and worst by OPS+. 

Hes played 1B enough. This is reserves, not starters. Positional criteria is not nearly as important of a consideration. 

Abreu was a player selection though. Mancini has played 4 games or less against half the AL. Players on other teams have barely even seen him play, it helps to be a known quantity here. Abreu IS a known quantity and has defensible enough traditional stats with 19 HR and 60 RBIs. Are the other players going to seriously analyze stats and figure out who really deserves it, or are they going to say “Abreu? Yeah he’s been good, how’s he doing this year? 19 homers? Sounds good.”

[atomic]

4 minutes ago, makoman said:

Abreu was a player selection though. Mancini has played 4 games or less against half the AL. Players on other teams have barely even seen him play, it helps to be a known quantity here. Abreu IS a known quantity and has defensible enough traditional stats with 19 HR and 60 RBIs. Are the other players going to seriously analyze stats and figure out who really deserves it, or are they going to say “Abreu? Yeah he’s been good, how’s he doing this year? 19 homers? Sounds good.”

But he does deserve it more than Mancini.  The all star game is just not about half a season.   Betts should definitely be starting over Brantley.

[atomic]

34 minutes ago, BohKnowsBmore said:

And Miguel Cabrera and Albert Pujols have far superior career performances, but they shouldn’t be the 2019 all star selection at 1B. Thus far this is Abreus 2nd worst career season by OPS and worst by OPS+. 

Hes played 1B enough. This is reserves, not starters. Positional criteria is not nearly as important of a consideration. 

Yeah but it has been years since they have been good, if you look at last year and a half Abreu is a much better player than Mancini. You have an all star once a year so it should be based just on half a years performance,

[Frobby]

3 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

Is it Means' fault he's being babied?  Is he asking out of games?  I remember when Bedard would ask out of games, I don't see Means doing that. 

Bedard averaged 6.5 innings per start his last year here.  

[Moose Milligan]

1 minute ago, Frobby said:

Bedard averaged 6.5 innings per start his last year here.  

Bedard not having a complete game win was one of the more dumb things on here.

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, Frobby said:

Bedard averaged 6.5 innings per start his last year here.  

But he would ask out of games.

 

Not that I have an issue with a pitcher knowing he was done.

[atomic]

3 hours ago, sportsfan8703 said:

It means exactly what I said. Man, Mancini has had the better first half. Not his fault his WAR has been hurt by playing out of position. Means has been babied. How many extra outs has he been asked to get?  

5 IP over an everyday player. 

Yo want him to get complete games every game like Mark Fidrych did his first season?  Means gives the club a chance to win every start he makes.  I am not sure what more you want,

[SteveA]

2 hours ago, Philip said:

I like feel good stories, and my original post was Stimulated by my enthusiasm for Means. Nate Mclouth Was an all star once, and Brad Brach, and an article about the guys who were one time all stars would probably be an interesting article and cover a whole lot of guys nobody’s ever heard of. So I liked the idea of Means getting a spot.

Since then the sad grind Of this awful team has reminded me of nothing so much as the Israelites’ 40-year slog through the desert. So I kinda lost interest in the AS game. It has been slowly deteriorating in quality for years, and There’s not really much reason to follow it: even the starters usually only get one at bat, Mike Trout is anointed MVP beforehand, And you need an enigma machine to decipher the box score when all is said and done. Its not ironic at all to lose interest in what is really just a Dog & Pony show.

I still like it because I get to see players I haven't seen much of.  This kid McNeily is having a great year and I couldn't pick him out of a lineup, I just know his stats.   And there's still something special about seeing the true greats of the game as teammates, and seeing the Scherzer vs Trout type matchups.