Poll: What’s your take on the Lopez trade

[Sports Guy]

Just now, Frobby said:

See, I consider Givens to be well above average (career ERA+ of 130) but there’s still been pretty big fluctuations from one year to another.  In my mind, Lopez will be about on the same level as a reliever in the long run.  

I consider Givens to be good too and if the Os had moved him on 2016 or 2017, they would have done better than they did.  As it stands, it’s possible Vavra is better than anything  they got for Lopez.

But again, that’s my point.  When you traded Lopez.  Now wasn’t the time.

[RarityFlaherty]

2 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Not really.  I believe in evaluation of the process and the situation at the time.

Not to mention, being a contributor isn’t really a big deal.  Kreihbel is a contributor.  If that’s what we end up with, who cares?

Do you think you’re better at evaluating talent than the Orioles front office? If Elias thinks any of these guys can become starters for us, the trade is definitely worth it. I’m not going to question the talent evaluation from the front office because I don’t have nearly as much information as they do. 

[Sports Guy]

1 minute ago, RarityFlaherty said:

Do you think you’re better at evaluating talent than the Orioles front office? If Elias thinks any of these guys can become starters for us, the trade is definitely worth it. I’m not going to question the talent evaluation from the front office because I don’t have nearly as much information as they do. 

Do you think they evaluated Kevin Smith to be a contributing player or do you think they knew he would suck?

[RarityFlaherty]

6 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

We are legitimately in the hunt next year and they are/were available.

So, you are advocating trading GRod for Lopez this offseason?

No because I’d rather see what we have with GRod since he’s a lot cheaper. You have to build the team from the ground up with cheap players first. If we were in first place at the trade deadline and had a top prospect like GRod in the minors who we could flip for a guy like Lopez, then yeah you do that deal.

[Sports Guy]

Just now, RarityFlaherty said:

No because I’d rather see what we have with GRod since he’s a lot cheaper. You have to build the team from the ground up with cheap players first. If we were in first place at the trade deadline and had a top prospect like GRod in the minors who we could flip for a guy like Lopez, then yeah you do that deal.

But pitchers are volatile until they have several years of success I thought?  Why would you risk that GRod ever has that success if you can get a far surer thing right now?

[RarityFlaherty]

4 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Do you think they evaluated Kevin Smith to be a contributing player or do you think they knew he would suck?

So because they got one wrong, you think you’re better at talent evaluation? Even the best talent evaluators get it wrong a lot. 

[RarityFlaherty]

4 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

But pitchers are volatile until they have several years of success I thought?  Why would you risk that GRod ever has that success if you can get a far surer thing right now?

Because the surer thing costs too much and we aren’t at the point where it’s worth it to trade away top prospects for expensive guys. If we’re in first place and making a run, then it might be worth it to do something like that. 

Edited August 4, 2022 by RarityFlaherty

[Sports Guy]

Just now, RarityFlaherty said:

So because they got one wrong, you think you’re better at talent evaluation? Even the best talent evaluators get it wrong a lot. 

No..that’s not what I am saying.  I’m saying that they aren’t infallible, despite what people on here think.  As you said, no one is.

That said, the whole “well because Elias said so, we are going with it” argument is a poor one imo. It reeks of being a sheep and not being able to formulate opinions for yourself.  If that’s how you want to be, go ahead.

Ill say this again..if I was grading this deal, based on all factors, I’m giving it at a C/C-.  I don’t hate it.  I don’t think the players we got back are bad or have no upside or anything like that.

What I do think is that we could have gotten more for Lopez later on and that the idea of us being a real team now and in the future factors in and I would rather have him in the organization now and make a decision on him later, when I think his value is higher, than take the offer we got.

Others disagree and that’s fine.  But what Good is having a discussion and a message board if the response is, well they know more than I do, so I’m trusting them.

If that’s the case, why even come here? You are just a robot.

 

[Sports Guy]

2 minutes ago, RarityFlaherty said:

Because the surer thing costs too much and we aren’t at the point where it’s worth it to trade away top prospects for expensive guys. If we’re in first place and making a run, then it might be worth it to do something like that. 

How are we not there?  Do you not believe in this process?  Do you not believe in the talent in the organization? Do you not see what they are doing with little talent now, especially compared to what’s coming?

Of course they are there.  Elias said it yesterday.  It’s time to lift off.  Wtf do you think he believes that to mean? He believes they are ready to contend and he should.  We all should.

[RZNJ]

21 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Not really.  I believe in evaluation of the process and the situation at the time.

Not to mention, being a contributor isn’t really a big deal.  Kreihbel is a contributor.  If that’s what we end up with, who cares?

And you think there's a huge difference between 29 year old Joey Kreihbel and 29 year old Jorge Lopez?

[RarityFlaherty]

1 minute ago, Sports Guy said:

No..that’s not what I am saying.  I’m saying that they aren’t infallible, despite what people on here think.  As you said, no one is.

That said, the whole “well because Elias said so, we are going with it” argument is a poor one imo. It reeks of being a sheep and not being able to formulate opinions for yourself.  If that’s how you want to be, go ahead.

Ill say this again..if I was grading this deal, based on all factors, I’m giving it at a C/C-.  I don’t hate it.  I don’t think the players we got back are bad or have no upside or anything like that.

What I do think is that we could have gotten more for Lopez later on and that the idea of us being a real team now and in the future factors in and I would rather have him in the organization now and make a decision on him later, when I think his value is higher, than take the offer we got.

Others disagree and that’s fine.  But what Good is having a discussion and a message board if the response is, well they know more than I do, so I’m trusting them.

If that’s the case, why even come here? You are just a robot.

 

So if I’m going to defer to the experts opinion for talent evaluation, that makes me a robot? Okay lol. Maybe I’m just smart enough to know that they have more information than I do, so I’m not going to get bent out of shape about one trade. If you’re going to so vehemently argue against this trade, then give us some numbers or stats that back that up. If you look at the history of relief pitchers, you could easily see the value in getting something for him now instead of risking getting nothing later. 

[Sports Guy]

2 minutes ago, RarityFlaherty said:

So if I’m going to defer to the experts opinion for talent evaluation, that makes me a robot? Okay lol. Maybe I’m just smart enough to know that they have more information than I do, so I’m not going to get bent out of shape about one trade. If you’re going to so vehemently argue against this trade, then give us some numbers or stats that back that up. If you look at the history of relief pitchers, you could easily see the value in getting something for him now instead of risking getting nothing later. 

I have given the numbers and talked about why I don’t think Lopez is going to fall off and therefore be worth more with a better track record…not to mention his value to a contending team, as I expect them to be next year.

And I’m not sure if you are reading or not but I don’t care about the faltering later.  It can happen sure.  Guys get hurt, guys have bad years.  The odds are against him being bad because of what he is doing now.  If he beats those odds and sucks and we don’t end up with this deal, I’m good with that.  That’s a risk I’m taking now.  The last few years?  No, I’m trading him for this package.  Now?  No way.

Edited August 4, 2022 by Sports Guy

[RarityFlaherty]

5 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

How are we not there?  Do you not believe in this process?  Do you not believe in the talent in the organization? Do you not see what they are doing with little talent now, especially compared to what’s coming?

Of course they are there.  Elias said it yesterday.  It’s time to lift off.  Wtf do you think he believes that to mean? He believes they are ready to contend and he should.  We all should.

I believe in the process and realize that it’s going to take longer than the fans want it to. Being ready for liftoff doesn’t mean it’s time to sell the farm system we just built. These are two totally different things. 

[Sports Guy]

Just now, RarityFlaherty said:

I believe in the process and realize that it’s going to take longer than the fans want it to. Being ready for liftoff doesn’t mean it’s time to sell the farm system we just built. These are two totally different things. 

Did I say to sell the farm system?  I’m talking about trading one guy and doing it within the context of your thought that pitchers are volatile, need multiple years, etc…

[RarityFlaherty]

2 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

I have given the numbers and talked about why I don’t think Lopez is going to fall off and therefore be worth more with a better track record…not to mention his value to a contending team, as I expect them to be next year.

Then maybe you should keep doing that instead of resorting to name calling. I’m willing to admit that you very well could be right and he does have more value next year, but I also realize there’s just as much chance that he gets hurt and he’s worth nothing.