Poll: What’s your take on the Lopez trade

[Sports Guy]

Btw, I can’t believe I’m sitting here arguing about how I, of all people, wouldn’t trade a player.  Wtf is going on here?  

[RZNJ]

You see.  There's a process.   There is a process in SportsGuys' mind.   The process is correct no matter what the outcome.  The process is perfect and can never be wrong.   Only the results can be wrong.  The process never fails.    The process can never be questioned or be wrong.   Why?   Because it's the process and it's his process.    Doesn't matter that two months ago the process told him the Jorge Lopez wasn't as good as he looked and was going to regress.   Now after two months, and more strikeouts, he is now convinced that Jorge Lopez will not regress.   Of course, if Jorge doesn't strike out a batter per inning or more the rest of the season he might be a candidate for regression again.   Trust the process!!!!!!!

Cade Povich could win the Cy Young award in 2025 and SportsGuy will insist that it was a poor trade because the process was wrong.   What a wonderful world he lives in inside his head.

Edited August 4, 2022 by RZNJ

[RarityFlaherty]

2 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Did I say to sell the farm system?  I’m talking about trading one guy and doing it within the context of your thought that pitchers are volatile, need multiple years, etc…

You’re looking at what I said too black and white. It was only in reference to Lopez not having as much value as some people think he does. Cost makes a huge difference when you’re putting together a team. 

[Sports Guy]

Just now, RZNJ said:

You see.  There's a process.   There is a process in SportsGuys' mind.   The process is correct no matter what the outcome.  The process is perfect and can never be wrong.   Only the results can be wrong.  The process never fails.    The process can never be questioned or be wrong.   Why?   Because it's the process and it's his process.    Doesn't matter that two months ago the process told him the Jorge Lopez wasn't as good as he looked and was going to regress.   Now after two months, and more strikeouts, he is now convinced that Jorge Lopez will not regress.   Of course, if Jorge doesn't strike out a batter per inning or more the rest of the season he might be a candidate for regression again.   Trust the process!!!!!!!

You keep saying I said he was going to regress.  That’s about as dumb as your assertion that Brent Lowther isn’t a good prospect.

[Sports Guy]

Just now, RarityFlaherty said:

You’re looking at what I said too black and white. It was only in reference to Lopez not having as much value as some people think he does. Cost makes a huge difference when you’re putting together a team. 

Oh ok.  So your point about pitching isn’t a point you stand by for everyone?  Just those that suit your argument at the time?  Got it.

Btw, I’m glad..because if you think trading GRod for Lopez is smart, I would question anything you ever say.

[RarityFlaherty]

Just now, Sports Guy said:

Oh ok.  So your point about pitching isn’t a point you stand by for everyone?  Just those that suit your argument at the time?  Got it.

Btw, I’m glad..because if you think trading GRod for Lopez is smart, I would question anything you ever say.

Look, I appreciate you have strong opinions, but now you’re just putting words in my mouth. My point is that Lopez doesn’t have as much value as you think, not that trading away all of our prospects for established pitchers is a good idea. I literally never said that. If you can’t see the nuance in what I have said, then there’s no point in arguing. 

[Tony-OH]

14 hours ago, e16bball said:

Was pleased to see that he actually did kinda give me what I was looking for:

”…particularly Cade Povich is somebody that we’re very, very high on internally, and think we’ve got a possible front-of-the-rotation starter and a guy that’s going to be in the mid-minors here before the end of the year.”

That’s what I needed to see. I trust their evals, but I just couldn’t put my finger on why THIS deal (and particularly sending cash with Lopez). Knowing that they sought out Povich specifically as a target puts me at ease — I’m pretty indifferent to where he ranks in the MLB pipeline list if Elias and Sig have him profiled as a possible TOR guy. 

It is interesting to see Elias use the TOR statement to describe him. Elias has been pretty bland in his comments in the past about guys getting back, so for him to use that statement means something. 

If he ends up a mid-rotation guy Elias wins this trade but a TOR would be a major win for the scouting department. They need one after some of the guys they've received in trades have not exactly lit the world on fire with Vavra being the only guy in my top 20 from previous year's trades.

[Sports Guy]

1 minute ago, RarityFlaherty said:

Look, I appreciate you have strong opinions, but now you’re just putting words in my mouth. My point is that Lopez doesn’t have as much value as you think, not that trading away all of our prospects for established pitchers is a good idea. I literally never said that. If you can’t see the nuance in what I have said, then there’s no point in arguing. 

What are you talking about? I have said from the beginning that I didn’t think Lopez had much value.  That’s exactly why I didn’t want to trade him right now. 

[Tony-OH]

2 hours ago, Aglets said:

In Elias's quote he basically directly said that at the trade deadline it is easier to extract maximum leverage from teams in the playoff hunt who need bullpen help.   So it is his belief that bullpen arms have their maximum value at the trade deadline.  I guess it makes some sense if you have a team that just thinks they are a bullpen arm or two away from a deep run.   In the offseason teams won't have that same feeling of urgency.

Exactly and I'm not sure why this concept seems to be sliding by some. 

When was the last closer traded in the offseason that got a top 10 prospect? I'll wait.

Like when he traded Scott and Sulser at the beginning of the year, he knew he had their replacements in Perez and Bautista. 

Elias stitched together one of the best bullpens in baseball from guys who've been DFA'd, released or traded multiple times, so we're supposed to be upset by him trading away Lopez? Why do we suddenly think Cano can't be a 6th inning guy like Baker was or maybe better? Because he struggled in his first go around through the majors. Go look up Krehbiel's stats before this season.

Elias was able to improve the depth of the pitching in the system. If he gets one starter out of this he won. If ends up with a starter and a reliever, he really won.

[RarityFlaherty]

1 minute ago, Sports Guy said:

What are you talking about? I have said from the beginning that I didn’t think Lopez had much value.  That’s exactly why I didn’t want to trade him right now. 

You’re arguing we didn’t get enough in the trade though. If he doesn’t have much value, then I don’t see how we didn’t get enough.  I get that you wanted to keep him and get more for him and that very well might have happened, but it’s a huge risk. I’d rather get the sure return now. I’m happy that we got the value we did from a guy we picked up off waivers. 

[Tony-OH]

16 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Btw, I can’t believe I’m sitting here arguing about how I, of all people, wouldn’t trade a player.  Wtf is going on here?  

Glad you are laughing about this because I'm not sure where you are coming from on this issue at all. You've always been a strike when the iron is hot and I'm not sure how much hotter a guy can be coming off an All-Star appearance. Especially when we literally have his replacement on the roster. 

[Sports Guy]

1 minute ago, RarityFlaherty said:

You’re arguing we didn’t get enough in the trade though. If he doesn’t have much value, then I don’t see how we didn’t get enough.  I get that you wanted to keep him and get more for him and that very well might have happened, but it’s a huge risk. I’d rather get the sure return now. I’m happy that we got the value we did from a guy we picked up off waivers. 

Well first of all, I don’t see it as a huge risk.  I see it as a risk but not a major one.

Secondly, I’m saying his value isn’t high enough because he doesn’t have much to a track record.  That track record comes when more pitching, which he would have done.

I think it’s irrelevant how we acquired him.

[Moose Milligan]

19 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

You see.  There's a process.   There is a process in SportsGuys' mind.   The process is correct no matter what the outcome.  The process is perfect and can never be wrong.   Only the results can be wrong.  The process never fails.    The process can never be questioned or be wrong.   Why?   Because it's the process and it's his process.    Doesn't matter that two months ago the process told him the Jorge Lopez wasn't as good as he looked and was going to regress.   Now after two months, and more strikeouts, he is now convinced that Jorge Lopez will not regress.   Of course, if Jorge doesn't strike out a batter per inning or more the rest of the season he might be a candidate for regression again.   Trust the process!!!!!!!

Cade Povich could win the Cy Young award in 2025 and SportsGuy will insist that it was a poor trade because the process was wrong.   What a wonderful world he lives in inside his head.

I think SG lives rent-free inside your head.  You seem to spend a lot of time obsessing over what he thinks or what he says.

Man, I'd never type a post like that about anyone here, not even in the JTrea heyday.  This is a little weird, not gonna lie.

[Sports Guy]

Just now, Tony-OH said:

Glad you are laughing about this because I'm not sure where you are coming from on this issue at all. You've always been a strike when the iron is hot and I'm not sure how much hotter a guy can be coming off an All-Star appearance. Especially when we literally have his replacement on the roster. 

Well, we aren’t usually a good team.  We aren’t usually a team that has an actual future.  So, striking while the iron is hot has a different meaning when it comes to guys that can be really good and part of your contending team.

You don’t see me upset about Mancini.  I wanted Tate and Santander gone.  Would have been happy to trade Mullins.  
 

Hell, im not even against trading Lopez. Im against trading Lopez for this package or another similar Bundy-esque package.  I see people all giddy because we got 4 arms for a 30 year old reliever.  That evaluation is so bad.  
 

I fully acknowledge that I think the rankings for Povich are bs.  He didn’t pitch much, if at all, last year and the velocity jump is huge and the prospect reports probably just haven’t caught up.  I think you can argue that he should be in the 9-12 range in our system.  I’m fine with that.   I like what we have read about him.  I’m not doubting him or his talent.  I’m not doubting that Rojas has real upside or that Sano can’t develop out of nowhere.
 

But, for me, this still isn’t a package I move Lopez for, not right now.  

[RarityFlaherty]

2 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Well first of all, I don’t see it as a huge risk.  I see it as a risk but not a major one.

Secondly, I’m saying his value isn’t high enough because he doesn’t have much to a track record.  That track record comes when more pitching, which he would have done.

I think it’s irrelevant how we acquired him.

Then we can just agree to disagree here. I see a huge risk that he gets hurt and becomes worthless. Not that I think he’s definitely going to get hurt, but more that the drop off from this to getting absolutely nothing isn’t worth taking.