Mateo Trade Potential

[maybenxtyr]

Unless Mateo hits better than he did in 2022, he's not a guy that you search to find extra AB's . As of right now all of his value comes from his defense at SS. 

 

There's really no reason to complicate it further.

[NCRaven]

4 hours ago, btdart20 said:

Can he pitch?

Mychal Givens Jr?

[Frobby]

6 hours ago, forphase1 said:

Almost all of Mateos limited value is tied up to his defense ability at ss.  His bat simply isn't good enough to justify playing him in the outfield. 

We’ve given 369 PA the last two years to Ryan KcKenna, career OPS .595.   So I could imagine sending McKenna to AAA and using Mateo as a defensive outfielder in situations where McKenna would have played.  Of course, that depends on whether Mateo can play plus defense in the OF.

[forphase1]

39 minutes ago, Frobby said:

We’ve given 369 PA the last two years to Ryan KcKenna, career OPS .595.   So I could imagine sending McKenna to AAA and using Mateo as a defensive outfielder in situations where McKenna would have played.  Of course, that depends on whether Mateo can play plus defense in the OF.

Sure.  But i don't think McKenna is much more than a pinch runner and defensive replacement player either.  His bat is also too weak to see the lineup often imo.  We've played him more than I'd really like based upon his production to this point.  But if Mateo could be the outfield defensive replacement too that could free up the McKenna roster spot.  

[wildcard]

Hyde used McKenna in a semi platoon with Mullins late last  season in CF.  McKenna had a 794 OPS vs lefties last season.  I am not saying that will continue or that he could not be replaced but the platoon was noticeable as Mullins was not hitting left-handed pitching.

Edited January 31, 2023 by wildcard

[Moose Milligan]

On 1/29/2023 at 5:56 PM, OriolesMagic83 said:

Offense could really struggle if 2023 Mateo is worse than 2022 Mateo.  Mateo is 28, it's a good bet he's at his peak as a player,  and will decline from here.

Well I’m glad we’ve identified Mateo as the lynchpin for the offense. 

When did 28 become the peak for a player? He’s a guy who’s got one year of ML experience under his belt, not an NFL running back. 

[Frobby]

8 hours ago, forphase1 said:

Sure.  But i don't think McKenna is much more than a pinch runner and defensive replacement player either.  His bat is also too weak to see the lineup often imo.  We've played him more than I'd really like based upon his production to this point.  But if Mateo could be the outfield defensive replacement too that could free up the McKenna roster spot.  

I agree with everything you said here.   Honestly I’d rather have a McKenna replacement who can hit better.  

[sportsfan8703]

2 hours ago, Moose Milligan said:

Well I’m glad we’ve identified Mateo as the lynchpin for the offense. 

When did 28 become the peak for a player? He’s a guy who’s got one year of ML experience under his belt, not an NFL running back. 

@Moose Milligan I’m just laughing with you, but you spent a year telling us how washed up Odor was at 28. 
 

We should’ve tried to trade Mateo to the Dodgers for whatever pitching prospects they were willing to part with. However, that didn’t happen. We have a need for OF defense to keep Santander at DH full time, until Cowser is ready, or one of Westburg/Norby becomes a COF option. I’m not down on Mateo. I just think that since we have Gunnar, that we need Mateo to play some OF as the team is currently constructed, but we’ll see if Elias makes some small moves to fix the OF opening. 
 

Overall, I just think for the 23’ O’s that Mateo isn’t a 150 game starter. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with asking him to play some OF. If he could play CF then he could be incredibly valuable. At the end of the day, this is baseball, people play other positions all the time to help out the club. See Steve Pearce at 2B. Machado only playing 3rd. Gunnar playing 2B last year. 

[TommyPickles]

Who do you think will have a higher OPS in 2023, Mateo or Frazier?

In 2022 it was Mateo (.646) over Frazier (.612).

Both were really bad hitters last year. That’s why I’m confused when I see people saying Urias will be a utility guy.

He, Gunnar, and Mountcastle should be out there pretty much every day.

[Moose Milligan]

1 hour ago, sportsfan8703 said:

@Moose Milligan I’m just laughing with you, but you spent a year telling us how washed up Odor was at 28. 
 

We should’ve tried to trade Mateo to the Dodgers for whatever pitching prospects they were willing to part with. However, that didn’t happen. We have a need for OF defense to keep Santander at DH full time, until Cowser is ready, or one of Westburg/Norby becomes a COF option. I’m not down on Mateo. I just think that since we have Gunnar, that we need Mateo to play some OF as the team is currently constructed, but we’ll see if Elias makes some small moves to fix the OF opening. 
 

Overall, I just think for the 23’ O’s that Mateo isn’t a 150 game starter. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with asking him to play some OF. If he could play CF then he could be incredibly valuable. At the end of the day, this is baseball, people play other positions all the time to help out the club. See Steve Pearce at 2B. Machado only playing 3rd. Gunnar playing 2B last year. 

 

No oneisexpectingMateotoplay150gamesin2023.

If you can't tell the difference between the wear and tear on Odor at age 28 who'd been in the ML since he was 20 and someone who, at age 27, is playing his first full ML season and ranks 98th/99th in sprint speed, then there's no use in continuing this conversation.

If Mateo can play some OF, great.  

[Pickles]

4 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

 

No oneisexpectingMateotoplay150gamesin2023.

If you can't tell the difference between the wear and tear on Odor at age 28 who'd been in the ML since he was 20 and someone who, at age 27, is playing his first full ML season and ranks 98th/99th in sprint speed, then there's no use in continuing this conversation.

If Mateo can play some OF, great.  

I personally question if Odor was 28.  He's been bald since he was 21 if that's the case.

Do guys go bald that young?  It can happen.

Do guys have atypical career arcs?  Sure.

Put the two together and I have my questions.

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, TommyPickles said:

Who do you think will have a higher OPS in 2023, Mateo or Frazier?

In 2022 it was Mateo (.646) over Frazier (.612).

Both were really bad hitters last year. That’s why I’m confused when I see people saying Urias will be a utility guy.

He, Gunnar, and Mountcastle should be out there pretty much every day.

I don’t judge Frazier solely on one bad season.  He’s been a decent hitter and a pretty good player for several years before last season.  Hopefully he bounces back.  If not, then his playing time should be cut sevetely.

I take your point about Urias.   The guy is terribly underrated.   He’s a bit injury prone but very good when healthy.  

[Moose Milligan]

1 minute ago, Frobby said:

I don’t judge Frazier solely on one bad season.  He’s been a decent hitter and a pretty good player for several years before last season.  Hopefully he bounces back.  If not, then his playing time should be cut sevetely.

I take your point about Urias.   The guy is terribly underrated.   He’s a bit injury prone but very good when healthy.  

You're right, we shouldn't judge Frazier solely on one bad season.  But it becomes hard not to when he's 32, potentially gets in the way of playing our prospects and costs 8 million (when this franchise has been penny pinchers and 8 million could have been better spent elsewhere).

Add that all up, it's hard not to judge his one bad season.  

 

[RZNJ]

Mateo had two months in July and August where he OPS's over .700.     He put up a 3.4 WAR with some absolutely terrible months.  Two months he OPS'd in the 500's.

Is there anyone, anywhere, who believes there's a chance that Mateo can OPS .700 over a full season?

[Sports Guy]

2 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Mateo had two months in July and August where he OPS's over .700.     He put up a 3.4 WAR with some absolutely terrible months.  Two months he OPS'd in the 500's.

Is there anyone, anywhere, who believes there's a chance that Mateo can OPS .700 over a full season?

He put up a 2.8 WAR by the better and more reliable WAR for offensive players.

He has some chance to OPS 700 but it’s not a strong one. If you set the o/u on his OPS at 685.5, it would be hard to take the over.